DCC Decoder Help

[red canary]

Hello all,

Im new to model trains having only bought my first sets two days ago (already regret not getting into them years ago)

Just wondered if anyone could help advis me on the choice of encoders for my quickly increasing fleet,

Just want apologise now for lack of info but im typing this on the bus to work,

So these are what I have,

Virgin pendolino (would I need two?)

Tornado pullman

Caledonian belle

Lowland carrier

Smokey joe

Any help on which decoders for which trains would be greatly appreciated, 

[Rog RJ]

As this is the Hornby forum, owned and run by Hornby, we can only really recommend Hornby decoders.

[2e0dtoeric]

Nearly all Hornby loco's use an eight-pin decoder. Some of the very small tank engines (and N gauge) need a six pin. Then there are two variants, the direct plug-in, and the one with a bundle of wires to find room for!

Most of the other big company's loco's use a 21 pin decoder.

It should say on the box, and in the instructions, which one you need.

Disregarding the sound decoders, there are only two Hornby eight-pins, the basic one, and the Sapphire, which is better for larger loco's and longer trains, as it can handle more power.

The basic one is sufficient for most smaller layouts.

'

What controller are you using? If you have the select, there are some decoders it doesn't like, and can refuse to play!

[Fishmanoz]

Select is only guaranteed to work with Hornby decoders, not other brands. 

[Howbi]

@Red Canary....as with many things in life, size matters and applies to decoder choice. So I would suggest you initially buy one each of the Hornby R8249 and Hattons DCR-8pin-harness decoders. You will immediately notice the difference in size so when you take off your loco bodies you will soon see which size fits. The Hattons is much smaller and I find it is needed for most steam locos to fit inside the boiler where the R8249 is too big. My Tornado loco has the Hattons decoder installed and that works ok with the Select controller.   HB

[dynax]

the sapphire decoder is 21 pin but comes supplied with an 8 pin converter, the r8249 basic decoder will fit most locomotives, i've got one in a 0-4-0 caledonian belle it is hardwired as no dcc socket,

[Michael_A]

I see the Forum Police are about! And not even the Hornby ones!  ;)

 

OK so we shouldn't promote non Hornby products on this forum, but in the real world Hornby DCC is not and will never be exclsuive to Hornby locomotives, something Hornby themesleves recognise and know, which is why they have even built into RailMaster the options to select e.g. non Hornby accessory decoders. Indeed, Hornby have also given advice on this forum about using their systems with other manufcturers DCC products, so let's not be too  pedantic.

 

There are also times when a Hornby decoder is not the right choice, especially for non Hornby locomotives, depending on space, pin numbers and so on. (Where is Hornby's 6 pin decoder for example? Where are their 'stay alive' decoders?) 

 

So in summary, any NMRA compliant decoder should work with Hornby DCC products, though there are known issues with some Bachmann decoders. (Which in fact helps the case for choosing Hornby!)

 

Go to the big on line stores and take a look at what's available, then decide for yourself. Other than the Bachmann topic, you wont go far wrong choosing the lower priced decoders, like the ones mentioned above........ ;)

[96RAF]

The forum rules at right of page clearly state discussion of non-Hornby products is allowed but not active promotion..

I take this to mean you can point out the merits of one over the other by saying 'brand A does this, brand B does that and Hornby does the other', but you should not say 'only buy brand A or B'. 

[poliss]

 It's the Select that has problems with some American manufactured decoders Michael. I'd say that doesn't help the case for choosing Hornby. It's about time Hornby made the Select NMRA compliant.

[Michael_A]

 It's the Select that has problems with some American manufactured decoders Michael. I'd say that doesn't help the case for choosing Hornby. It's about time Hornby made the Select NMRA compliant.

I agree. It's become a useless piece of kit living in the dark ages! ;)

[Fishmanoz]

People should stop bagging Select, it works a treat as a door stop in light breezes.  However, it isn't heavy enough for the job in a strong blow.

 

It works the same for DCC - light breezes only, very limited for any heavy duty DCC work.  You'll have the wind up in no time flat if you try to use it for anything more than the absolute basics.

[dreng]

I have an Elite and a Select, I have just updated the Elite to 1.42 firmware, but had to use an old XP PC to do this,the

Elite did not want to know Windows 8, so I used my Select unit for a few days and found that some locos that would not operate with the Elite would with Select and after the firmware update still the same. Any thoughts please?

[Fishmanoz]

Hi dreng, welcome to the forums.

 

Could I just suggest to start with that, when you have a new topic you start a new thread rather than putting your post on the end of another.  Also, when you reply, avoid using the Quote button to do so and use the big green Reply at the bottom as I'm doing now.

 

To your question, we need more information please.  For a start, it is most unusual that your Elite will not control a loco that your Select can, it is usually the other way around.  So could you confirm to us that the locos in question are DCC fitted, what they are and what decoder do they have fitted.  And do you mean by won't operate that the Elite will not do anything with them at all despite your using the same address as for the Select?

[dreng]

Thanks for advise re posting. Yes all locos are dcc'd,the 1 I was trying last night was Hornby Percy. Put Percy on programming track with select works a treat, plug that track into Elite no action. I had all my loco's dcc'd by the same person and iam fairly sure they are Hornby decoders.

 

 

[96RAF]

Suggest you try a reset of the Elite via the Menu - Unit.

[2e0dtoeric]

Dreng - the Elite has FOUR sets of output clips on the back of the case. Make sure you are using the correct ones!

They are labelled 'track' - 'prog' - 'boost' - aux out'. You want to connect the layout to the 'track' clips!

Also - make sure that you have put the bare wire end into the clip, not one with the plastic insulation still on it! (I know it seems daft, but I've seen it done, then the 'operator' wondered why nothing happened!)

[dreng]

Have reset the Elite as per the manual, Percy now works fine. I have a Canadian Pacific which when you read the decoder the read light flashes 3 times and shows xxx. I have tried reprogramming with a new number to no avail. Any ideas? I have several other locos dcc'd running with no probs. Thanks to RAC96, Fishmanoz and 2e0dtoeric for your sucessful help.

[2e0dtoeric]

If I recall the Elite shows XXX if it can't 'see' a decoder, so I'd 'lift the lid' and make sure there is one in the loco!

[96RAF]

As 2-erics says you need to have the controller and track interconnected via the correct connections with respect to what you are doing - i.e PROG for when you are doing decoder read.write stuff and TRACK for making the loco wheels go round.

BOOST and AUX are another vstory for another day.

[Fishmanoz]

Given what he's told us so far, I think dreng gets the Select and Elite outputs and how they are different as he has some locos working, at least one not and another that only worked after an Elite reset.  But let me ask a couple more questions.

 

I know you can program with Select dreng, have you also managed to program any locos to a new ID with Elite?  Just how many do you have now that won't work with Elite, just the one?  Have you tried a little downward pressure on it while trying to program to make sure you have good contact (note the Elite progam output is lower power so is more likely to be prone to poor contact issues)?.  And will this loco run on the track output of Elite?  And try Elite programming without anything connected to its track output as this is a known potential issue too.

[Michael_A]

Try writing the loco address again in Register mode, then see if they work. See p27 of the Elite manual....