RM 1.63 update

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

"Chrissaf" - in the latest revision of RailMaster, we left the INI file settings in respect of the things you mentioned untouched so users who downloaded the update from yesterday should not be affected.

We still need to watch this space, however, as this is a complex area and what works for you may now work for others due to their unique set-ups.  Unfortunately, this is the kind of ongoing battle we face.

[Chrissaf]

@HRMS

You wrote in your detailed very informative reply.

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"this update does not affect anybody installing RailMaster for the first time as things are set up optimally."

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I have a query on this statement. There must be literally hundreds of new RM CD's sitting on retailer shelves or in sets waiting to be purchased this Christmas that still have a pre-1.63 release on them. So when installed it would install a .INI file that is optimised for that particular RM version. The user starts RM for the first time and the auto-update check says that new version 1.63 or later is available. Since the .INI file is not over-written by the update, surely this would mean that the later x.xx would be installed with the pre-1.63 .INI file still present, which of course, would not be the optimum configuration.

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It has been a long time since I originally installed RM from my original CD so I can't remember if this auto-update check occurs prior to final RM installation as part of the initial installation set-up or not. Can you confirm?

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PS - I did make a point of adding comments like 'this worked for me at least' or 'suited me better' thus indicating that my settings might not be the optimum settings for everybody. But I take your point that posting unofficial settings for everyone to see, may be counter-productive. But the point of the forum is about sharing information for like-minded enthusiasts.

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

"Chrissaf" - the software creates a default INI file based on the parameters entered when the software is first run.  You will remember that it goes through a mini setup wizard.  From this, and other detected parameters, the program creates the best default INI file for that system, therefore there should be no problems - assuming the user installed the DCC controller as per instructions.

It doesn't matter what version of RailMaster is on older CDs as one of the first things RailMaster will do is update the program to the latest version.

RailMaster is a sophisticated system, especially for people used to just turning a knob and pressing a few buttons on a traditional DCC controller so there is a learning curve.  We want to make the installation and configuarion of the software as smooth as possible although there will of course be some users for whom things do not go completely smoothly due to either their set-up or not reading the instructions.  This is why we believe we provide an exemplary support service, with a built-in Help Request system, email, remote login to a users' PC and all this even on Christmas Day.

 

[Yelrow]

HRMS,  what i want to achieve is running my trains; You have effectively stopped that; If  your updates had not affected me, you would have heard nothing; Before you issued 1.63, they ran fine, and throttles worked; You can see from other posts, that this is now no longer the case; Instead of taking a confrontory approach, might i suggest that you take on board our suggestion of an update which includes the file amendments; That way, as usual you would have our full support. I have at no time to my knowledge, until my last 2 pôsts, been anything other than supportive of your tireless work to solve problems. I did ask in my private email, given my disability for individual assistance, but that fell on stony ground.  Perhaps, a regular update on your progress, to the forum,  might help;     The last thing anyone wants is the product, which is very good to  become difficult to use, hence my point on the INI files.  john

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

"yelrow" John - As you will have gathered from our postings, emails and support, we want RailMaster to work effectively for EVERY user.  As we have explained, every users' system is unique.  We are not confrontory - we need to correct certain postings and put the facts up as these postings will remain online for years and it is important that your, sorry to say this, scaremongering is not seen as fact.  We are sure you must understand this.

It is clear that you have been particularly upset by the update and we have tried to help you.  To say that your request for assistance fell on stony ground is simply not true and again, we must say, an exaggeration on your part.

If you require further assistance simply use the Help Request system built into RailMaster and we can, if necessary, log into your computer remotely and sort out all of the problems you seem to be having. We are waiting for your Help Request.

[Chrissaf]

I've just noticed that the .ini file entry Double pulse=1 doesn't seem to work any more. It only seems to send one pulse, whether this entry is set to 0 or 1.

Ray

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Ray, I made a point (when I was experimenting with the .INI file during the early hours relating to the 1.63 update issues) of adding the 'Double pulse=1' line to my .INI file to test for you. I can confirm that with =1 on my particular setup I got a double pulse and a single pulse with it set as =0.

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However what I would add was that the two solenoid pulses were extremely close together, it sounded to my ears more like an audio reflected echo of the first pulse, but it was definitely a second pulse. I seem to remember that before this feature was added, the two pulses were further apart, but that statement is just anecdotal.

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I would point out however that my solenoid firing setup is non standard. My R8247's fire a relay that in turn fires the solenoid by a very powerful external CDU. My CDU has an extremely fast re-charge time, thus there is sufficient charge to fire a second pulse even when so close together.

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It may be that your system is indeed giving a second pulse, but you are unable to detect it.

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After testing, instead of deleting the 'Double pulse' line completely I left it in-situ but changed it to =0 as single pulses work fine in my particular set-up.

[AncientMariner]

Yesterday my Android HH did not work

Today it does work

Computers are like that.

 

I did start it before my iPad - I need to try that one out a bit more. IIRC we used to see a green indicator at lower right when connected. I saw it flick on briefly then go out.

 

But there is still no feedback from my Elite to the second Large Loco Control Window. While it works correctly in the Loco Control Area and the first Large Loco Control Window. Am I to understand that I am the only one seeing this?  

 

I no longer see the "Short Circuit Window" when the Elite is short circuited, although I do if I unplug it. Is this now a feature rather then a bug?

 

AM

[GWR Greg]

I read with interest all the comments about updates and how individuals are being effected. I updated to W10 and back to W8.1 several times before HRMS provided a fix. I then had problems with the short circuit window not appearing. HRMS logged onto to my computer despite some communication difficulties and sorted this issue. In fact the person who was helping me stayed late so as to fix the issue resulting from my computer initially refusing to let HRMS work on it remotely. I still have an issue with RM only linking to the internet occasionsly. All the usual suspects have been elliminated as causing the problem. Something unique to my computer set up is blocking RM. My local computer wiz is adament it is a W10 issue although HRMS believe otherwise. It is not a big problem as just download updates manually. Just to finish and confirm RM plus elink  is working fine with no problems except internet communication.

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

We were hoping to have seen a posting from Yelrow as we logged in to his computer around an hour ago and among seeing a few incorrect settings, reinstalled his Elite USB driver.  RailMaster then connected to the Elite and everything worked.  We added back the Elite feedback to RailMaster as requested and now assume that all is fine, and haven't heard anything to the contrary.

In this case, it appears that a corrupted USB driver for the Elite was the principal culprit and not the RailMaster 1.63 update.

 

[St1ngr4y]

I've just noticed that the .ini file entry Double pulse=1 doesn't seem to work any more. It only seems to send one pulse, whether this entry is set to 0 or 1.

Ray

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Ray, I made a point (when I was experimenting with the .INI file during the early hours relating to the 1.63 update issues) of adding the 'Double pulse=1' line to my .INI file to test for you. I can confirm that with =1 on my particular setup I got a double pulse and a single pulse with it set as =0.

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Hi Chrissaf,

Thank you for taking the time to check this. I have just re-checked my findings of yesterday by placing a multimeter over the solenoid outputs of one of my ADS8 decoders. I am only seeing the needle move once when the point is fired. Bear in mind that neither RM nor the Elite/Elink are sending pulses - they should be sending one or two DCC packets to the decoder, one for each "pulse" required. If two are being sent, then they must be being sent without much of a gap between them, therefore not giving the CDU time to recharge.

Ray

[Chrissaf]

Ray, the latency of multi-meters are such that two pulses when so close together will, from the meters perspective, merge into one. One would need to see an Oscilloscope trace to see a double hump graphical representation of the actual rising / falling voltages in real time.

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"then they must be being sent without much of a gap between them, therefore not giving the CDU time to recharge."

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That was what I was alluding to in my post when I described that I was using an external CDU with a very fast re-charge time. In conjunction with my anecdotal comment about my memory recollection relating to inter-pulse gaps.

[Yelrow]

HRMS, hi, sorry to be so long, but things were not as clear cut, as expected. If you remember, you were unable to turn computer off, as demanded, during remote session, and when power re applied, problems occurred. First it asked for power on Elite to be removed, and replaced within 12 secs, then to unplug and replace usb lead. This was necessary 4 times, before, being accepted, and all now appears well. Thanks.. When i updated from 1.62, version 1, which was working fine, the elite was removed from controller A, as was the baud rate, suggesting, as you say, a corrupted driver. You were kind enough to also sort out my RM throttle, which had suffered the same fate. It may be useful for others with Elites to do a re install of that controller, as you did. I left it all unplugged, between attempts, hence time delay.  in replying As you rightly say, everybodys machine is different, mine speaking a foreign language. It was an unfortunate co incidance, that when upgrading, to 1.63, corruption occured, which led one to belive originally that 2 plus 2, equals 4, that being the only common   sense solution at the time. It certainly did not occur to me that the Elite driver had been corrupted. Perhaps we have all learned a valuable lesson. I will be trying it again later, so time will tell.  HRMS, thanks again for your  as usual prompt response. It is nice to watch the throttles moving again. Let us hope that the expected novemberwindows 10  update, this time, gives you less problems. john 

[WilliamDavid]

AM, would be interested to know if this new revsion 1 update fixes your Elite controller knob feedback on your second RM throttle. I don't have Propack installed, so only have one large RM throttle, but would be interested to know the answer all the same if only for completeness of information.

Chris

 

It hasn't fixed it on mine. I deleted the existing ini file and re-downloaded revision 1.

I modified the ini file line Elite feedback=1, and now the Elite feeds back to the first large throttle and all the small throttles, not the second large throttle.

Also, since replacing the ini file, the controller icon pulses, as mentioned elsewhere. I'm sure it didn't before I replaced the ini file. 

Small things. Still a great system, and I'm sure they will be sorted in due course.

 

Edit. Further tests.

The above was with my Windows 7 HP tablet.

I have done the same with my 10.1" Windows 10 tablet, And other than not having Pro on it and so no second large throttle, the results are the same. The green controller panel pulses and highlights as inactive.

However, putting the ini file back to 0 stops the panel pulsing, and it highlights as it should.

I think RM are correct in not having this feedback as the norm, as the control knob movements bear no relationship to the RM throttles.(Scale speeds)

[Yelrow]

If all else fails, is it possible to take everything back to 1.62, and if so how, as my probs have returned HRMS, are on the cas, but french internet connectivity has a mind of its own, and we were cut off. john

[St1ngr4y]

Ray, the latency of multi-meters are such that two pulses when so close together will, from the meters perspective, merge into one. One would need to see an Oscilloscope trace to see a double hump graphical representation of the actual rising / falling voltages in real time.

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"then they must be being sent without much of a gap between them, therefore not giving the CDU time to recharge."

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That was what I was alluding to in my post when I described that I was using an external CDU with a very fast re-charge time. In conjunction with my anecdotal comment about my memory recollection relating to inter-pulse gaps.

I am pretty sure in the past when I have used a multi-meter in this way, I have definitely seen two distinct movements of the needle. There is a recently introduced entry in the .ini file, Points timer= and in mine I have it set to 1.00 (seconds). I believe that this was used to determine the gap between "Double pulses". Maybe it is this parameter value which isn't being effected any more (since 1.63).

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

Not convinced Points Timer ever affected double pulses, only minimum time between each single or double pulse.  I think CDU in 8247 holds enough charge for 2 pulses anyway?

[Chrissaf]

Ray,

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"I am pretty sure in the past when I have used a multi-meter in this way, I have definitely seen two distinct movements of the needle."

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I agree. I have seen two multi-meter movements too, but only when the two pulses have been wide enough apart, time wise, to allow it. From what I observed during my test, the two pulses do now seem to be far closer together than I previously remember.

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

The double-pulse function is designed to shift 'sticky' points on a layout, i.e. those that do not move freely.  It works with solenoid point motors and not motor-driven point motors.  If all of your points move perfectly then "Double pulse=0" should be set in the RailMaster.ini file and indeed this is the default setting when installing the software now.  We assume that all points are servicable and have been laid correctly on a layout.

If you have sticky points then setting "Double pulse=1" will send a second pulse around a quarter of a second after the first one.  We have not come across a point motor or accessory docoder with built in CDU (capacitor discharge unit) where the brief interval between firings do not give the CDU enough time to recharge.  Most, if not all CDU enabled points motors and accessory decoders have enough charge to allow more than one firing very close together.

A multimeter will most likely not show the two pulses as it takes a fraction of a second (or longer in some models) to measure the voltage and therefore you cannot actually measure the double pulse.  If you really want to test it then you can apply a 12v LED with a resistor to the point motor or accessory decoder port and you will see it flash twice.

We hope this clarifies double pulsing to point motors.

 

[Chrissaf]

Excellent suggestion HRMS regarding using LED to test. The LED has virtually zero latency and should show any double pulse very clearly. I would suggest for others reading that the resistor connected in series with one leg of the LED is 1,000 ohms. Remember the LED is polarity sensitive so needs to be the right way round. Based on R8247's (other brand accessory decoders might be different) the long leg (+ve) of a standard round LED should be connected to the 'common' terminal side of the decoder either directly or via the point and its wiring.

[St1ngr4y]

...setting "Double pulse=1" will send a second pulse around a quarter of a second after the first one.

 

I'm pretty sure that the time interval between the pulses was nearer one second. You could definitely distinguish two clicks of a point motor when operated by the red/green buttons, before the Double pulse  parameter was introduced to the .ini file. Would you like to clarify whether this quarter of a second gap is new or not. Would you also clarify whether or not a double pulse is ever sent from a program or when a point is changed by a signal or another point? Is a Double pulse sent when the points are being initialised at RM startup?

Many thanks

Ray

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

The pulse interval used to be around half a second.  After much testing with accessory decoders we determined that 0.25 seconds was equally good and also helped to speed things up and made programs more accurate.

The double pulse is sent at start-up, during normal operation and from programs.

[gilbo2]

Now running 1.63 Version 1 on my eLink based system.

 

Have been reading all about 1.62 and 1.63 with interest in the last few weeks!

 

The short circuit detection is working with "Check controller=1" in the .ini file but it is taking too long to be detected now for my liking. It used to take a few milli seconds but not takes 1 to 2 seconds.

 

I am concerned that this will cause electrical damage. This does not seem right?

[AncientMariner]

2 steps forward and one back. Following progress reports here I wondered if my Elite driver might have something to do with the bugs (minor) that I'm seeing here. So I uninstalled 1.63 rev 1,  renamed my .ini file, re-installed, and then updated the Elite driver. Turns out that there is a new one supplied in 1.63 rev 1. On running RM, I checked that the 3 new lines were all present and set them all = 1. I restarted RM and tested the short circuit: RM popped up the "short circuit" window (although there was sometimes an appreciable and variable delay. I assume that this depends on when RM checks the controller). 2 steps forward. I followed the instructions in that window, unplugging the Elite, waiting 5 secs then replugging it. The trains started running again: all seemed well. Then I tested the short circuit again - no pop-up nor in any subsquent test until I restarted RM. One step back. I discovered that using ESC to reset the Elite had the same non-effect, but it didn't trigger the repeated pop-up as it did earlier.

 

The throttle/function stuff was as before. So there we are.

 

AM

 

 

 

 

[AncientMariner]

Now running 1.63 Version 1 on my eLink based system.

 

Have been reading all about 1.62 and 1.63 with interest in the last few weeks!

 

The short circuit detection is working with "Check controller=1" in the .ini file but it is taking too long to be detected now for my liking. It used to take a few milli seconds but not takes 1 to 2 seconds.

 

I am concerned that this will causes electrical damage. This does not seem right?

I don't think you need to worry about any damage. The controlller trips as before and is therefore safe. The delay you see is RM detecting the error situation and popping up the window.

 

AM

[gilbo2]

 

I don't think you need to worry about any damage. The controlller trips as before and is therefore safe. The delay you see is RM detecting the error situation and popping up the window.

 

AM

This is the concern though, the controller is no longer tripping out until after 1 to 2 seconds and I hear the short buzzing away?