Railmaster runs locos but can't read/write their CV

[ilduca1960]

Dear all,

I have a Railmaster with elink running quite well until today on my n gauge track.

I used it successfully with a Hornby R8249, another brand DCC decoder and a Bac..n DCC loco.

Yesterday I tried 2 NEW locos by another famous brand (F...) bought at bargain price on Ebay (locos are different model but both brand new) and putting them on track (not in the same time obviously) I can run both perfectly and switch on/off the lights, reverse direction etc. The address of both is "3" as usual for new devices.

Then I put the first on the programming track to change the address and I cannot read or write any CV! During the reading procedure the loco moves a little in the programming track!

I tried with the other and.... same result. I read all 255.

I already made some other test:

1. Put my old locos on programming track: OK

2. Disconnect the main track when trying read/write CV of the new locos: fail

3. Run again the new locos o main track: OK

The problem is only the read/write CVs. 

Do you have any suggestion?

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

Since one of the locos moved a little (which is normal with some decoders) that would suggest a connection between the PROG output of your eLink and your lcoo decoder (i.e. clean track, wheels and pick-ups).  Therefore, the other thing to check is whether the power clip or power track you are using to the prgramming track is analogue or digital.  An analogue power connector has a small capacitor inside which interferes with the DCC programming signal.  Just clip open the power connector by hand and if you see a small capacitor inside soldered across both inputs just snip it out with a pair of cutters.

If it's not a capacitor and you know your cable connection, wheels, track, pick-ups are clean then it only really leaves the loco decoder (although more than one being faulty is unlikely) or the PROG output of your eLink (which is also unlikely in our experience).

 

[ilduca1960]

Thanks a lot for your support.I cleaned the programming track also if it was demonstrated that there was no any problem with other locos and decoders.

I cleaned the programming track; no success.

Anyhow after many tries, sometimes one CV out of 10th is correctly read.

I tried also to set a longer waiting time between the each CV read but it come always to 4 seconds. 

 

 

 

[ilduca1960]

To avoid problems from the tracks yesterday I decided to make a more basic test.

I disconnected completely the Elink from any track. I connected the pick up of the loco directly to the terminals of the programming track if the Elink. Unfortunately the result was quite the same. I read all 255. 

But I noted one important thing. Just the FIRST try I could read the CV1=3! If I try again I read always 255 for the same and all other CVs. The only way to read again the first CV is to disconnect power to the elink e restart from scratch. 

So I have done another experiment. I reconnected the Elink to the main and programming tracks.

I repeated the same experiment: OK, I can read just the first CV if this is the operation FIRST.

Final workaround:

1. Switch off the elink. Then switch on with the loco on the programming track

2. Go immediately to the CV programming 

3. Write the new address (my main scope at least for now)

4. Just after the writing on the first CV TAKE AWAY from the track the loco. I noted that if I leave the loco on the track the RM by itself try to write also CV 17-18-29 also if I didn't write any value for these!

Now the loco finally have changed the address from original 3 to the new one and I can at least run the loco on the track normally.

 

[Smithy58]

I experienced this issue a while ago and have not resolved it, it confirms there is an issue with the software since the upgrades have taken place , hornby need to resolve this Asap otherwise it may impact on the enjoyment of doing model railway and Christmas sales

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

That is not right.  You should not have to go through that process just to read and write CVs from a loco.  If this were the case we would have hundreds of emails regarding this.  We have had none at all.  Did you check for the capacitor in the power clip or power track?  You didn't mention this in your last post.

If there is no capacitor present and your set-up is correct (Com port below 5, BAUD rate set correctly in Device Manager etc.) then you may have a subtly faulty eLink (PROG output).  We have no records of you communicating with our support team directly so you might want to think about this so that we can assist you in determining whether your eLink is faulty or whether your set-up is not quite right.

[96RAF]

What rm is trying to do is write a default long address of 100 into cvs17 & 18. This is represented by two numbers.

if you don't let the write sequence complete then set the decoder to long addressing it won't have a default to work to, same thing as it writes 3 as the default short address.

i suggest you let it finish its job and I highly recommend you let HRMS have a look inside your machine to rule out any finger trouble in your setup.

then if it is a hardware problem you will have support for your claim and if not you will have a working system

[Nick_]

I had a similar problem with one of the versions of 1.62 a while ago where all CVs were reading back as 255 on my programming track. I then updated to the then very latest version of 1.62 (I know the latest version is now 1.63R1) and disconnected/re-connected the leads from both the e-link and the programming track and after that every thing worked properly, so I don't know which of the two actions fixed the problem, but one of them did!

[ilduca1960]

Dear HRMS,

There is no capacitor in the track connections.

As I said I also tried with two simple cables from Program Track output to the loco pickups and the problem has been the same.

I never had the same problem with other old locos or decoders. It seems that these new German Native DCC locos (F...n) are "hard to hear" and for some reason compromise the CV read/write process. As I noted these locos during CV reading (after the first CV whichever I start) move slowly the wheels forward and back in small steps. This tells you something?

Can the parameter "seconds between reads" help in some way?

 

[96RAF]

Do these new F-loco decoders have stay alive as the presence of capacitors has been known to cause addressing problems to the extent of people fitting a 'programming' switch to cut them out of circuit during programming.

 

[AncientMariner]

Can the parameter "seconds between reads" help in some way?

 

Certainly it's worth trying a larger value - I use 11 secs. for my locos. Even then I sometimes get missed values.

 

AM

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

The capacitors built into some locos will be bound to have an effect on reading and writing CVs.  In effect it is like having the capacitor in the power track clip.

[ilduca1960]

The capacitors built into some locos will be bound to have an effect on reading and writing CVs.  In effect it is like having the capacitor in the power track clip.

This is a good hint.

I didn't check till now bit i suppose there is a capacitore inside the loco 

Thanks

Claudio

 

[Fishmanoz]

 

HRMS, the conclusions on here about capacitors in DCC locos have at best been equivocal. If such capacitors and other low pass components like inductors were in fact across the track, there would be no doubt.  However, they are not, they are across or in series with the motor and hence the motor output of the decoder.  In fact, if they were across the track and you were running more than one such loco, the effect would be multiplied as all of the capacitors would be in parallel and any signal degradation much worse.  I don't think this is the case.

 

The motor is a highly inductive load in the first place and doesn't rely on the high frequency components in the decoder output, rather it simply uses the average value of this PWM signal similarly to but not quite the same as a DC signal.  Given the motor can only use DC, this isn't surprising.

 

Now I do agree that all such components be removed as they are unnecessary when converting a loco to DCC.  But I would also note that for many more modern DCC ready locos which contain circuit boards with a number of functions including a socket for installing a decoder, it may well be very difficult for many to find the componentry let alone remove it.

 

So I remain to be convinced by your suggestion HRMS.

[ilduca1960]

Obviously if I find a capacitor or other component inside the loco I will not touch it because this is a native DCC loco that I think normally working well in DCC. If I touch Anything I can lose the warranty.

But it is good to know that this could be a problem with the RM.

Thanks

[ilduca1960]

 

HRMS, the conclusions on here about capacitors in DCC locos have at best been equivocal. If such capacitors and other low pass components like inductors were in fact across the track, there would be no doubt.  However, they are not, they are across or in series with the motor and hence the motor output of the decoder.  In fact, if they were across the track and you were running more than one such loco, the effect would be multiplied as all of the capacitors would be in parallel and any signal degradation much worse.  I don't think this is the case.

 

The motor is a highly inductive load in the first place and doesn't rely on the high frequency components in the decoder output, rather it simply uses the average value of this PWM signal similarly to but not quite the same as a DC signal.  Given the motor can only use DC, this isn't surprising.

 

Now I do agree that all such components be removed as they are unnecessary when converting a loco to DCC.  But I would also note that for many more modern DCC ready locos which contain circuit boards with a number of functions including a socket for installing a decoder, it may well be very difficult for many to find the componentry let alone remove it.

 

So I remain to be convinced by your suggestion HRMS.

I fully agree. Much more the new two locos showing the same problems are DCC from factory. So they have decoder installed by Fl.....ann 

[Fishmanoz]

Just say Fleischmann or Bachmann ilduca, no problem on here.  And Fleischmann is a Hornby company anyway.

[Yelrow]

Fishy, are you sure about fleischmann, Riverossi, and lima, ok, but Wiki, does not list them. john

[walkingthedog]

You're right John, Fleischmann have nowt to do with Hornby. You can still use the name in full though. The days of not mentioning other makes are gone.  

[Yelrow]

WTD, Thanks,Gosh, thats twice this year, i have been right, its getting worrying. Heather tells me i argue my case a lot better, when i am in the wrong. Its the only bit of this post, i understood. Capacitors and inductors, go right over my head. john

[walkingthedog]

Don't let them go over your head John you'll electrocute yourself. 

[Fishmanoz]

The ones in the switch yard at your local power station just might but hopefully not the ones in your locos. 

 

And my my mistake on ownership. 

[swiftnick]

After 3 attempts to get an Elink that actually worked, I have been up and running successfully for 9 months. MY locos generally have Hattons DCC concept decoders but I purchased a Bachmann pannier tank fitted with a loksound v4 from Hattons 6months ago. This I succesfully programmed to suit myself and it has been chuffing and tooting beauifully since. About a week ago I purchased a class 10000 diesel and successfully installed a hattons decoder in it. I thought I would use CVs 67 to 98 to create a speed curve to suit my needs. I have done this on the loksound decoder on the pannier and thought I would read and copy the relevant CVs on that. Despite it being on a dedicated VERY clean program track and main track not connected could not read ANYTHING! The loco still runs beauifully with all functions on the main track. It also appears to write to the decoder as I have done a factory reset to try and sort it and that has all worked OK. Still cannot read. Decided to test the Hattons decoders. The newly set class 10000 reads without problems the others programmed months ago only worked in part. Every time I tried to read them I got different values!

I have the 1.63 software and 1.07 firmware

Can anyone help. I like the Hornby system but it is totally unreliable. Unless someone can help it goes in the bin!

[Fishmanoz]

Maybe if you read the solutions instead of the problems, you might do a little better. Start with the Hornby railmaster thread.  

[swiftnick]

Maybe if you read the solutions instead of the problems, you might do a little better. Start with the Hornby railmaster thread.  

Absolutely no help at all. I have scoured the forums and looked at the railmaster help web site and found nothing! Most of it seems to be about communication between computer and elink which works fine. I have only been at this a few months and don't have the expertise. Solutions are what I am looking for but can't find any.