96RAF Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I wonder if Hornby would be interested in setting up a web-site survey to test the market for making available retro TTS kits. Such kits could offer generic steam and diesel sounds, and ideally would cover small, medium and large steam locos possibly by way of two, three and four cylinder sound sets as well as small and large diesels. All with say a simplified set of typical whistles, horns, squeals, clinks, lights, etc rather than the usual comprehensive but unique to type hisses and whirrs. Ideally the speaker would plug to the decoder board for ease of fitting and come with the necessary plastic speaker enclosure, although a plastic Humbrol paint tin with the top cut off makes a good solid alternative. To encourage Hornby to kick this off maybe the forum would initially like to show their interest or not and what features they wouldn't mind losing and which they consider essential. This could help Hornby frame the survey questions. My other suggestion would be for such a kit to be retailed in the £25-30 range based on current price differential between typical Railroad and TTS model prices, adding an element for packing and marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR Greg Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Agreat idea!. I am steam only so would be happy with limited range of sounds. Say six above the standard running sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynax Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I for another would like a retro TTS decoder, it might be worth Hornby considering bundle offers eg, loco + tts = £xxx, this way as RAF stated with generic cylinders an appropriate decoder would be supplied, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 So are you saying you want to buy the locos without sound and fit that yourself, or that there would be a range of choice of sounds at varying prices. If the former, it will never take off, in my view, as 80%of sound locos go to those who cannot/ dont want to mess with innards. If the latter, eg class 37, with 6 sounds, £20 cheaper, etc etc, i can also forsee snags. Why cant we just buy TTS, sound decoder, as is, or very sinilar, for £35. If i have misunderstood, my apologies, but on a personal front, like the firemans breakfast. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynax Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 As it is at the moment there are not very many in the tts range, (most of which i have), the few locos i have without sound i would like to fit with tts, rather than replace them with tts versions( flying scotsman and tornado in my case), plus there are other locos i want that aren't in the tts range, but if a tts decoder was available, i could buy the loco i want and a tts decoder to suit, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 @JohnAt the moment each TTS decoder sound set is particular to that loco type. I was suggesting a full TTS sound set in each kit, but recorded as generic to small, medium or large steam and small or large diesel locos, not range 1 with 6 sounds for £20 then range 2 with 15 sounds for £25 and range 3 with all the sounds for £30. The kit would simply be a single type fully loaded generic TTS decoder and speaker c/w enclosure, which is necessary to maximise the sound quality. It wouldn't be possible to have them all on one decoder and selectable, so I reckon five generic decoders. Fitting one would be little more difficult than fitting any other plug fit decoder. These kits would be addition to any specific spare decoders for R-numbered TTS locos, which seem to be rarer than hens teeth in any case, else people would be buying and installing them to other locos already, e.g. A4 and forthcoming King class. Maybe Hornby are just going to expand the TTS range to include many more classes before even thinking about retro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Agree, have Flying Scotsman also. A way round it, might be for hornby to offer a fitting service , at cost, when you buy a loco, as i dont belive, many will want to fit them themselves, me for one. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetmanUK Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm relatively early in my loco collecting and having sampled a TTS loco I try to go for sound-included whenever possible. Actually, thinking about it, I am only looking at the sound option. So its a Yes from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37lover Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Putting aside my current lack of funds I would still be worried about fitting a sound decoder/speaker that cost me £100 plus, but happy to have go if the system had 'only' cost say £40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbet Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I have almost all the TTS issued locos and think the sound provided is brilliant value for money. If Hornby made chips available for the sort of price suggested I suspect they would be one a winner. For those that aren't comfortable with fitting them themselves, i would think many Model Shops would undertake the service. Generic sounds accross Steam is probably easier to achieve thatn accross diesels, but theren't aren't too many engine types for diesel and Hornby have access to most of the sounds already.Go for it Hornby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbet Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I have almost all the TTS issued locos and think the sound provided is brilliant value for money. If Hornby made chips available for the sort of price suggested I suspect they would be one a winner. For those that aren't comfortable with fitting them themselves, i would think many Model Shops would undertake the service. Generic sounds accross Steam is probably easier to achieve thatn accross diesels, but theren't aren't too many engine types for diesel and Hornby have access to most of the sounds already.Go for it Hornby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I can't see Hornby being able to bring a TTS decoder to market considering Packaging, Distribution and Advertising costings plus adding Retailers markup then VAT for less than £60.....selling a few existing Railroad models with TTS could be considered a bit of a loss-leader..........it's disappointing to see that out of the 9 TTS fitted models, 2 are Sold Out and 4 are Out of Stock.........hopefully they have a container planned to arrive before Xmas. HB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I think it's a great idea but the price you are aiming at is far too low. On another forum there is a discussion about cordless drills. You can buy one with two batteries for £100. A battery on its own costs on average £75. I don't know why this is but most products are much dearer if you buy them in separate components rather than as one complete item. So a TTS decoder and a speaker (forgive me if I read that wrong) for £40 ain't going to happen. I really do hope Hornby proves me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 No reason for it to cost more than 30 quid. A decoder's value is going to be controlled by R&D costs, more than material costs, so economies of scale mean the more you make the cheaper they are each.The decoder blanks are probably about 50 pence apiece, then they need to be one time programmed with the TSS sounds, so amortising the costs of the programming kit required into the equation over say 5,000 units (1,000 of each generic type - as previously discussed and ignoring extant TTS decoders for R-numbered models already in production) and you could say net cost to manufacture about 2.50 quid each.Speakers - a 28mm diam speaker can be found for less than a quid.Packaging amounts to tens of pence in volume depending upon complexity. Hornby standard decoder box and blurb probably adds about 30 pence to an item. You could get away with an anti-static plastic bag and folded card closure for hanging up in the shop. How are non-Hornby decoders packaged?Add to that the cost of transport from China in bulk and an allowance for the Chinese business syndrome - two for you (Hornby) and one for me (out the back door).So probably no more than a tenner actual cost to Hornby. Wouldn't you just like to see their accounts... Mark that up in the usual manner - i.e. ignore the actual cost, how much do we think we can get away with flogging them for - and 30 quid tops is not unrealistic in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 @ RAF.............well I don't think your argument holds water, RAF. All the well known brands of sound decoder available at the moment are around £100 retail and even split TTS decoders on 'bay are now asking £60............only Mylocosound are being realistic in offering a kit for less than £60. I'm sure the 'big boys' would reduce their pricing if there was a greater demand to increase turnover. But, there you go, that's business as they say. HB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Total speculation on my part HB, but from experience in the business world I know the retail price has nothing to do with the value.e.g. how many things price out at a penny less than a rounded pound, even cars and houses are sold at a fiver less than a thousand.Its all down to what some chump is prepared to pay for an article, not what it is actually worth or cost to make.As for ebay and TTS, I watched the first one on there many, many months ago, ripped from a C of the N and repackaged with a photocopy of the manual used as the plastic bag top and it went for 52 quid.Nor can you directly compare full fat sound decoders on price with TTS, as the former are reprogrammable whilst TTS is a much cheaper one time programmed item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Hope you're right RAF, can't see it happening at that price. Why aren't other sound decoders cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70s kid Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Just a thought/observation, with more than one loco producing sound, would the comined sounds not become 'noise' rather than distinct train sounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR Greg Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 My Locosound do a sound decoder for £55 plus £5 p&p. It uses generic sounds. So it would be good if Hornby can produce one for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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