70s kid Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I did my first ever decoder instal today on a DCC ready Mallard. My track is still analog DC until I've finalised the layout & know where to run the bus wire. When I ran the Mallard now fitted with a Hornby R8249 decoder on my still analog track however I'm getting problem changing loco direction. It goes forward fine but when I stop and reverse the direction, sometimes it makes a sound and stops in a fraction of a second. I've found that by starting off in the opposite direction with a bit of welly on the power, it goes in opposite direction ok. My question is, do I need to do anything to better enable control of a Mallard now equipped with decoder but running on an analog track? I have a Flying Scotsman that I bought DCC-fitted and this works great on the analog track so I'm guessing it's decoder may have had something done to it that I haven't done on my Mallard? Thanks as always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanQ4 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Are you sure you have the number one pin of the decoder in the number one socket.Try reversing the position of the decoder in the socket.This wont cause any damage to either decoder or loco and may solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70s kid Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Hi Norman, thanks for that Tip. The instructions that came with the decoder said put the orange pin into number 1 slot but helpfully there was no orange wire at all so I ended up with it inserted both ways in trial and error mode. One way had a buzzing sound from the motor and it wouldn't move at all and when I reversed it, it goes forward ok but unless I give plenty of power when changing direction, it gives a buzzing sound for a split second then stops dead. If I put plenty of power when starting off after a direction change, it seems to go ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanQ4 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Hi KidI've never ran AC on DC but I'm thinking your 12V DC does not have enough oomph for the 15V AC decoder and that's why you have to crank it right up to get it to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Kid, for a start, mounting the decoder back to front will make no difference to its DC operation. All that happens with the decoder back to front is that you swap the red and black wires from the pickups, and the orange and grey wires going to the motor (yes, there must be an orange wire, even though you say you didn't see it. The Orange wire is opposite the red at one end of the decoder plug, while the grey and black are opposite each other at the other, and the grey is diagonally opposite the orange). It is far more likely you have dirty wheels on the Mallard, or the pickups aren't properly tensioned against the back of the wheels. How was it running before you converted it? And you could just reinsert the blanking plate until your layout is DCC. Also, very easy to do a first conversion to DCC. All you need is one DCC power connection to the track and DCC point clips in all the points. You can worry about a bus later. You can use one of your existing DC connections, track or clip, as long as you flip open the little black plastic box on it and remove the capacitor you find in there by clipping off its legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 And a DCC controller of course...Your analogue one will run trains but won't control like a DCC one.Also never connect analogue and DCC controllers to the same track at the same time or there will be tears at bedtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think this is a mechanical problem, possibly a bent connecting rod or suchlike. It's very easy to bend the motion work when removing and refitting the body to the chassis. Turn the loco upsidedown and look for any pieces of the motion work which are too close together as you slowly rotate the wheels and adjust very, very slightly as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 2 things Kid1. Go to the shop page on this site for the R8249 decoder and you will clearly see the orange wire.2. If you have a small 9v battery you can put the terminals across the loco wheels while looking for trouble as explained by Rog and the wheels will turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70s kid Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Thanks guys - all great advice and I struggled even with readino glasses to see an orange wire but I'll take a magnifying glass to to now as I sa what seemed a pinkish wire that may under magnification be the elusive orange. The loco ran and sounded beautifully smooth before opening it up so I reckon I've managed to somehow bend an arm as they came out of two tiny vertical slots in the black housing at the front where they slide in/out so I reckon there's something bent that may be causing the problem.I hope to have a DCC programming track if not the whole layout bus sorted by end of the day so the extra amps going through the DCC can only help. Great tip about the 9V battery - will save a lot of commuting to -from the garage where the baseboard & lauout in-making are.Many thanks for all your help guysGerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70s kid Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 *Update*With the enhanced vision of a magnifying glass, I saw a tiny (VERY tiny) number 1 printed on the decoder that by chance I had aligned with the no. 1 spot on the loco's board :) I soldered power cable from my friend's Elite he brought over to try and the Mallard now runs smoothly forward AND in reverse so it looks like the extra amps available via DCC solved the prob thankfully.As ever, I've managed to replace one problem with a different one - I see where the body is to be screwed to the chassis at the front but NO idea where or even how the body re-attaches at the rear? Every time I lift it, the body comes up, leaving the chassis behind. It's probably a very silly easy thing but compared to previous stop/no change of direction issue, it's less stressful. If I can get this last element sorted, I've at least broken my duck on decoder installation athough I managed to make what was supposed to be a simplistic plug & play into an epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 There is a small lug on the rear of the chassis which fits into a rectangular slot in the body.engage the back first and pivot the body down at the front until the screw mount engages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70s kid Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 That's brilliant RAF - my god I never realised how bad my eyesight has become even with reading glasses. Found it and it fits great now.The last thing that's risen up to bite me is the two screws now that attach the body to the chassis at the front won't screw in ad it looks like I've managed to wring the thread on the body so the screws just turn round & round but aren't biting into anything. I tried shaving pieces of a match and put that into the jokes to see if the screws would 'bite' into that but without success. I I could use araldite or some other glue but there's no way back if so. Any last ideas how to get over this laSt (hopefully) new hurdle in the ongoing saga. You must be weary of the varying and innovative ways this 'simple' process has become an ongoing saga. Thanks for all your help and would be delighted to get any ideas on how to attach screws where the thread is no longer an option to screw into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 @KidThe screws usually go into a brass insert in the plastic body posts and if the thread gets damaged the insert can turn making it seem like the thread is stripped. Check the inserts with the body removed so you can better see what is happening. If damaged you can get replacement inserts (try Peter's spares). These can be araldited into the worn post holes. On an old model or two I have also just removed damaged inserts, filled the hole and redrilled it to suit a self-tapping screw. This depends upon the style of the existing screw as some are shanked and/or quite long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70s kid Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Thanks RAF, I'd never have thought of filling & drilling pilot hole for self-tapping screws. I was looking at a Mallard body on e-bay but it's over £25 and is nuts just for the screw prob. Theres no brass thread visible in the holes so either the screws engaged with a thread on the inside of the holes themselves or I've managed to push any brass receivers down into the bottom of the holes & can't now see them. Either way it's desperately frustrating to overcome one problem oy then to be faced with a different one. Thanks as ever for the advice. I work in airside operations at Dublin Airport and am MUCH better with aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 We all certainly hope so kid! Just to be sure, suggest you get some new reading glasses so you don't fit any engines back to front. Talk about going round in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 70s, if you can match the thread to a machine screw that is the same thread but longer, then you might be able to capture any brass insert (if fitted) and draw it back up the hole to its normal position. I would assume that the screw thread, given the age of the loco, is likely to be a BA thread rather than a metric one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Take a look at these Kidhttp://www.petersspares.com/triang-hornby-s7908-metal-helicoil-pk2-for-loco-bodyshells.ir You'll have to copy and paste the line as the link hasn't activated unless someone else comes along and makes it work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 http://www.petersspares.com/triang-hornby-s7908-metal-helicoil-pk2-for-loco-bodyshells.ir Thought I'd try but reports 'page not found' but still opens Peters Spares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Search on there for S7908http://www.petersspares.com/triang-hornby-s7908-metal-helicoil-pk2-for-loco-bodyshells.irhttp://www.petersspares.com/?searchStr=insert --- second row from the bottom, but again out of stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan K Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 If you hover over the hyperlink you will see a couple of stray characters on the end as %20%20. Without those the link works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 @Al KClicking your link takes me back to page 1 of this thread - very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70s kid Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Dare I say it ? Success?? I tried again with my matchstick 'rawlplugs' and amazingly the screws bit in and tightened - I know....I could barely believe it. Thankyou all SO MUCH for your patience and help/suggestions - I've learned a lot from this (not least get prescription of glasses checked) And in particular, not all screws are the same. if any of you guys come to Dublin, I'd be more than happy to stand you a pint at the very least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70s kid Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Dare I say it ? Success?? I tried again with my matchstick 'rawlplugs' and amazingly the screws bit in and tightened - I know....I could barely believe it. Thankyou all SO MUCH for your patience and help/suggestions - I've learned a lot from this (not least get prescription of glasses checked) And in particular, not all screws are the same. if any of you guys come to Dublin, I'd be more than happy to stand you a pint at the very least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Bear Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 The orange wire is actually a pink colour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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