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Static IP


Mr Beef

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Hi

I am struggling with trying to set static IP. I have followed the user guide and just cant seem to get it right.

Its probably me not fully understanding what I am supposed to do.

Here is a screen shot of what I have done and when I open railmaster it still tells me that I dont have a static IP and then trys to set it but fails.

IP address is my laptop IP and default gateway is my router.

Could someone have a look and and advise in simple terms where I am going wrong please.

Tahnks in advance

Steve/media/tinymce_upload/7839ba304007b05e8ad6f971cf4e6403.jpg

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Mr Beef (Steve), It has been several hours without a response with a definitive solution. Thus in the meantime whilst waiting, this might be of help.

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I am assuming that you have followed the Railmaster Hand Held guide and run IPCONFIG in a ‘Command Prompt’ window and that your current IP addressing information that you have used for configuring a ‘Static’ address was taken from the IPCONFIG report.

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Based purely on what’s shown on your screen shot, everything looks appropriate to my eyes, assuming that the ‘Default Gateway’ 192.168.1.1 address is correct. This is the address of your Internet Router.

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It is the router that controls and allocates the IP addresses for any devices that you attach on your home LAN network, whether that be via a direct cable or Wireless. It does this using DHCP (Dynamic Host Control Protocol). Within the router configuration you should find an IP address range that is reserved for being allocated dynamically. It might say for example 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.100.

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It is recommended that any ‘Static’ address that you decide to use should be outside the range reserved for dynamic allocation. Using the example above, that would be an address between 192.168.1.101 and 192.168.1.254

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The reason being that the router will be unaware that you have allocated an address from the DHCP range for ‘Static’ use, thus it may allocate the one you have used (in your case 192.168.1.9) for another device and cause a conflict.

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I am not suggesting that this is the reason you are having issues, I just point it out for the purpose of highlighting ‘best practice’.

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If your router address is in fact 192.168.1.1 as your image suggests then open your browser and type http://192.168.1.1 in the go to URL box. This should take you to the integral HTML page configured in the router to provide a configuration interface. You will need the ‘administration’ password. This will normally be printed on the router label if it is still the default and has not been changed by you. If the address above does not take you to your router configuration interface, then your 192.168.1.1 address is incorrect, thus your 'Static' address configuration in your posted image is incorrect too.

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You should be able to find a page in the router interface that states the DHCP range. Then just choose a ‘Static’ address that is outside that range. Do not use 192.168.1.255.

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Assuming you have been following the Hornby RailMaster Hand Held.PDF user guide, then you will have already used the IPCONFIG utility.

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With your ‘Static’ address configured (ignore RM for the present). I would suggest re-booting your PC and then run IPCONFIG in a ‘Command Prompt’ window and confirm that your ‘Static’ address has been successfully accepted by the PC. In other words IPCONFIG  displays:

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IPv4 Address 192.168.1.x where x is the static address you have chosen

Subnet mask 255.255.255.0

Default Gateway 192.168.1.1

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If the data matches then just check that you have Internet access, i.e you can browse the net OK.

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Then try RM again, if you still get the error message, then that would seem to indicate that although the PC is accepting the static address, RM isn’t for some reason. If this is the case, revert the Wireless Interface configuration back from static to dynamic i.e select the ‘Obtain IP address automatically’ radio button for both IP address and DNS Address – refer to your posted image to see what I mean. I would re-boot your PC afterwards to ensure the configuration change back to dynamic IP address allocation has been accepted.

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Before making any changes I would suggest creating a 'System Restore' back up point, So that you can revert your PC back to a good known working state. Nothing should go wrong, so this is just an insurance policy.

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Alternative method 2.

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The purpose of creating a ‘Static’ address when using Hand Helds (HH) with RM is so that the HH always know where to find the RM PC on your home LAN. So in theory all you need to ensure is that the RM PC always gets allocated the same address. This would be the IP address you will enter into your Hand Held device.

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You should (subject to your particular router) be able to manipulate the router DHCP setting to always allocate the exact same address to your PC. It is difficult for me to give a ‘step by step’ as the process will vary with router model. But you should be able to find a configurable setting shown against your PC IP address in the router database that gives a clickable option with words something along the lines of ‘always use this address’ or similar.

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You could also check out AC’s website for the section on Static IP addresses and Railmaster

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Hi Mr B, not wanting to cloud anything Chris or AC will pass on to you about this subject and so that you know it's not just your machine, I would add that I get the Static IP address warning when I boot up RM as well, and RM is unable to set it automatically in my case. After a long discussion with AC off-line we discovered that my router (BT Home Hub V3) does not allow IP addresses to be easily altered (!). I further discovered that the fact that a static IP is not set seems to make no difference to my running of RM either on the laptop or my iPad. It is better to fix it if you can I understand. R-

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@ Mr Beef (Steve)

As Chrissaf has suggested take a look at my Help Site using the link he gave above.

 

One thing about static IP's is critical... absolutely critical.  I will come to that in a moment.

When Chris points out that certain numbers in a range cannot be used becasue they are outside of a dynamic range is not always true and is mostly the other way. Let me briefly explain... this is on the site pages too...

The only addresses you cannot use on a router are usually (if using a range of 192.168.1.???) these ones: 192.168.1.0, 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.255.

The first one at 0 is a network address as is the 255 one which both allow the router or network to identify the first and last addresses of each range so it can then go to the next range correctly... i.e. 192.168.2.0 from 192.168.1.255.

The 192.168.1.1 is usually a default router address so you can access its internal configuration interface via a browser. More importantly this is usally the gateway address for the router (and subsequently your system) to comunicate with the outside world. Different routers can use say 192.168.1.254 (which should be changed to the .1 address for better usage purposes) or, indeed, 10.0.0.1...

If any other configuration is made available to you by default (as explained by Chris, correctly for his setup) then this is specific to the router you have bought or have been supplied with. It is NOT a default by any means in the networking world. BT are big culprits in not offering default addresses.

 

To the part I need to point out... static IP addresses are fine if you only have ONE piece of equipment in your household using the router for addresses to be handed out via DHCP as Chris explained above. If you have more than one piece of hardware connected (cable or wireless makes no difference) such as a printer, mobile phone, laptop, PC or tablet etc. then you must attach a fixed IP to each one. You should ALSO set the fixed IP addresses for each piece of hardware INSIDE the router if it allows it. This is more secure, faster and less troublesome. DHCP is automatically turned off in the router or you can do this if fixed IP's are the way you wish to set up all equipment.

Why? If you have a laptop and PC and designate a fixed IP to the PC of, say, 192.168.1.2 and you do not configure the laptop then you must turn on the PC first each time so it can receive the connection correctly to the router with the .2 address. If you turn on the laptop first the router does not see a fixed IP for it (this is dynamic addressing via DHCP) so allocates the first IP in its memory so this is the .2 address. When you then switch on the PC it is going to look to the router to connect on the .2 address and find it is already in use. Thus you get an IP conflict message and your network fails on the PC but works on the laptop to a certain extent because eventually you get the same error.

This is fixed in a way by what Chris has said above about DHCP address allocation being outside of the first 100 addresses. (That number can be anything between .3 and .254 but you have to know how many pieces of kit are given fixed IP's to determine the start IP after .3). Only certain routers have this setup inside as default.

 

BTW... your settings above in the picture are perfect. You only need give the router the same fixed IP address and match it to your network cards MAC number. See the site for how to do this. I use a Draytek router in the example pictures but do not worry about that. If you are stuck with this and your router is not easy to get to grips with let me know on here so I, or others, can sort it for you or at least help.

 

Bare in mind that the setup you gave above will only work where ONE piece of equipment is addressed in that way. To avoid conflict give everything a static IP. By removing DHCP altogether and getting the router to match the IP addresses of your equipment to their MAC address and supplying those to the router (if the servcie is available) is far better... especially for wireless equipment.

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Thanks guys.

Just had a quick read, will read again and digest.

Another screen shot showing that my router has a "permenent lease" tick box which was already ticked and I have set IP address reserve with MAC and IP address.

If its any help my router is Talktalk Huawei HG533.

Maybe a coincidence but phone is sat next to me and has been connected for 15mins which has never happened before usually only a couple of mins but I still got the IP message when I started RM.

Once again thanks for your help.

Steve

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Steve, At this point I bet you wish you hadn't asked now.........neither my own or AC's response meets your request to put it in 'simple terms' but at least I tried.

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@Chris

I hope you don't think I was treading on your shoes... Your piece was excellent and will help quite a bit... especially where you mention the split DHCP IP's. I was hoping to just add to what you said.

Trouble is with this stuff there is no easy way to learn about IP's and their usage either dynamically or static. There is still so much more to it too. It took me a couple of years to grasp it all properly although in terms of home usage etc. it is hard but doable. Business? Now there's the rub! Apols to you if I did tread somewhat...

 

@Steve

Pictures have to be checked by Admin before being accepted for posting. Shouldn't take long though...

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@Chris

I hope you don't think I was treading on your shoes

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No not at all AC. I held back quite a few hours from posting my first reply. I was waiting to see what you would reply with as this is your specific area. I only responded because nearly a day had gone by without a single comment, I was thinking that Mr beef might be getting disheartened at a nil response. Even after many years of designing IP addressing schemes when I was working, I was still only scratching the surface. Now retired more than 10 years I can only remember the basics, the knowledge fades away.

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Steve,

I just caught a glimpse of the first one of your posted pictures before they were taken down again by Admin. I think Admin were concerned about them showing IP addresses going by the added Admin message annotated on them. The only addresses I saw were in the private address range that virtually every broadband router has, so shouldn't be a security issue. But I only got a quick glimpse of the first image.

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Anyway I digress. What I did have just enough time to see on the DHCP section of the image was that the router has been configured to put the WHOLE of your available addresses into the DHCP pool. That is to say all the addresses from 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.254 I also saw the 'permanent lease' box was checked on that page also.

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The 'permanent lease' check box being ticked will help as this means the devices you have attached are more likely to keep the addresses they are assigned, but there is no guarantee that will be the same for ever.

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I would suggest changing the DHCP pool range to end at 192.168.1.200 so that you have a small number of addresses at the upper address range that you can use statically. You can't use 192.168.1.0 that, as AC said is the network address. You can't use 192.168.1.1 that is your default gateway router address, but you could then use any address(s) between 192.168.1.201 and 192.168.1.254 for static use.

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I suggest providing an address range reserved for static use at the upper end, because any devices on your LAN that have already been allocated a DHCP address, will probably have had those allocated from the bottom end of the range.

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Then if you want to experiment with using static addresses, any address in the 201 to 254 range shouldn't cause any conflict with existing devices on a permanent lease. You may need to run the router with the 'permanent lease' check box 'UNCHECKED' for a while to clear out the internal router cache. Or if there is a clickable option for clearing the cache and renewing attached device addresses, then use that after changing the DHCP pool range.

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I didn't get a chance to see the second image you posted, so I don't know if what was on it was relevant.

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I have no idea what process RailMaster uses to perform a 'Static Address' check to cause the error message, but it could be possible that it interrogates the router in some way perhaps via data contained within the PC and saw that your previous 192.168.1.9 static address was also within the routers DHCP pool range, and saw this as a conflict of some kind.

 

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Thanks Chris

 

The picture you didn't see showed IP reserve which had laptop IP and MAC number showing (bit silly of me to post that but wasn't thinking).

I have also set mine and the wife's mobile with IP reserve.

 

One other possible I am thinking, I had my phone connected to my laptop and RM running albeit without e link connected downstairs (near router) for over half an hour and didn't drop out. Took upstairs to railway room and kept dropping out every minute or so. Could I need a range extender or power line. The Internet does work upstairs but maybe not a strong enough signal for RM.

 

Once again thanks for the replies.

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Personal opinion, but I think most people that aren't privy to the inner working of the technology, put too much faith in Wireless connectivity. It can be problematic, even in a domestic setting.

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This is anecdotal but I have come across people who having been disgruntled with their Internet performance, have upgraded their broadband to a high speed service then bemoaned the fact that they saw no improvement in performance. They just didn’t realise that it was their wireless connection that was their bottleneck.

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The wireless standards have evolved over time, but the lowest common denominator prevails.

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Let me explain this a bit more.

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You may have seen adverts (particularly BT ones) claiming our router has the best wireless performance ever. These claims are usually made as a result of their router having a wireless interface conforming to the IEEE 802.11n specification or later. In simplistic terms (there are other many differences), these later specifications support doubling the wireless frequency from 2.4 to 5Ghz. The higher frequency provides higher data throughput but over shorter distances.

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Many Wi-fi devices found in the home operate on a much older wireless specification IEEE 802.11g or the even earlier a or b specification. Some routers can handle multiple wireless interfaces concurrently, but many can’t. What this means is that if your router can support IEEE 802.11n and you buy a new PC that also supports IEEE 802.11n, but you have an old tablet that only supports IEEE 802.11g, then the router may switch down to operate with the lowest common denominator. That is IEEE 802.11g in this example. All that expensive IEEE 802.11n technology has gone to waste.

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Also, as I found in my own case, the attached device may choose to use the lower spec Wi-fi for communication EVEN IF both the router and the attached device support the 5Ghz specs, because the device deems that the lower 2.4Ghz frequency is giving the higher signal level. I got over this by locking my Laptop down to only use the 5Ghz Wi-fi interface (see further below).

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The other consideration of wireless communication is that the headline throughput speed in the specification is in perfect conditions. The error correction protocols in the wireless specification will incrementally reduce connection speeds until reliable communication is obtained. But even then, if operating on the edges of reception ‘drop outs’ will be common place. Other parts of the ‘error correction’ protocols will constantly request the sending device retransmits ‘lost’ data packets, further slowing down data throughput.

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My own view on Wi-fi in the home, is directly cable if you can and only use Wi-fi if you have to.

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In my own home, my fibre based broadband router is in my upstairs study next to my primary PC. I have a RJ45 terminated UTP 5 cable that is routed down to the lounge where it terminates in a 5 port Ethernet switch that services all my Internet capable Audio / Visual products (TV, Blu-ray, Xbox, Humax freesat / freetime etc).

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My RM laptop in the room next door to my study has an IEEE 802.11n interface and I have locked it down to use the IEEE 802.11n 5Ghz in my router so that my RM laptop cannot fall back to use the concurrent IEEE 802.11g 2.4Ghz interface that my router supports. Before I did this lock down, the laptop constantly dropped back to the lower 2.4Ghz frequency even though the laptop was only in the room next door to the router.

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Sorry for all this technical waffle so far, but I just wanted to give some background rationale for the answer that I am about to give to your original question.

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“Could I need a range extender or power line.”

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I think based upon what I have already written you will guess where this is heading.

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Yes…..I would definitely think improving your home LAN connection capability will be beneficial. I have and always will favour a direct cabled connection. The ‘powerline’ is the next best thing. I have purchased a ‘powerline’ starter pack as a Christmas present for my sister, before wrapping it up I had an opportunity to have a play with it and also to prove it was working and configured correctly. I was quite impressed with the performance. I used it to replace my wired connection to my fibre broadband router and did a speed throughput comparison check. It was no slower than my normal direct cabled broadband speed (38Mbit/s).

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Just FYI the ‘powerline’ product I used for the test was the Solwise AV500 product. Other ‘powerlines’ are available.

 

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Thanks Chris

 

It is now getting clearer  hopefully.

Presuming I have static IP's applied which I think I have, I do have a cable from my router to an old pc upstairs. If I buy a switcher I can the put this cable into that and run my pc an lapto from the switcher.  would this be better than a powerline or will the powerline be better baring in mind my router and laptop are 802.11n  and would the switcher give me better connection between my mobile and laptop.              Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Steve, definitely better than a powerline and your Wi-fi. Just a correction of terminology, just a very small picky point. Ethernet distribution boxes come in two flavours. A 'Hub' and a 'Switch', there is no such thing as a 'switcher'.

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Originally 'Hubs' were very much cheaper than a 'Switch', but as time and technology move on, the 'Hub' is less common and the price of 'Switches' have dramatically fallen.

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In a 'Hub' the Ethernet data packets are broadcast out on all ports. In a 'Switch' a logic table (based on MAC addresses) is maintained that only sends the Ethernet data packets out on the port that connects to the destination device. In a typical home type environment the performance difference between a 'Hub' and a 'Switch' is minimal, but that said, an Ethernet 'switch' is the better technology.

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Subject to the Ethernet Switch purchased, and the Ethernet interface specification of your router, PC and Laptop. Using the 'switch' will give at least a 100MB connection, and a very reliable connection at that, and possibly even a Gigabit Ethernet (1,000MB) connection. Virtually all Ethernet interfaces support 100MB these days. The older 10MB Ethernet interface is much rarer. Some Ethernet interfaces are multi-standard 10/100/1000MB. These equate to the IEEE 10BaseT, 100BaseT and 1000BaseT specification standards.

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One other advantage of using a 'switch' is that you can have a 10BaseT device on one port, with a 100BaseT device on another port and a 1000BaseT uplink connection with all three different standards working together in harmony. You couldn't do that with the older 'Hub' technology.

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You should be able to obtain a 4 or 5 port 100MB Ethernet switch for about £15 to £20 pounds or even less. Goggle "Ethernet Switch".

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PS - These devices are true 'plug n play' they shouldn't need you to do any additional configuration straight out of the box. Although more expensive devices might offer configurable options, but even those will work out of the box on the default configuration.

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Steve, regarding the mobile phone.

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Your previous posts seem to infer that the mobile is physically connected to the laptop. If this is the case, then you only need to consider using the existing PC cable with the additional Ethernet switch acting as the upstairs Ethernet distibution box.

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If that is a misunderstanding and the mobile phone is connected wirelessly then read on.

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I assume that you mean a 'smart phone' of some type AKA iPhone or similar. Correct me if I am wrong, but I take it that can only access a Wi-fi signal. That is to say, when you said the Laptop and mobile were near the router and the mobile didn't drop out, the mobile phone wasn't plugged into the Laptop. The reason it didn't drop out was because it was physically located in close proximity to the router and was getting a good wireless signal.

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I suppose it depends how important mobile smart phone Internet communication activities are to you when sitting at your upstairs layout. There are devices on the market (that you could connect into a spare port of any switch that you purchase) that provide a remote Wi-fi hot spot. In other words, this would be like putting your router Wi-fi interface at the upstairs location, co-located with the Ethernet switch. To do this would boost your Wi-fi coverage within the house. Even if you did this, I would still recommend connecting your RM laptop to the upstairs switch as a direct cabled connection.

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Chris

The switch I will get is tp link gigabit 5 port can get from work £11.

Yes my phone is Samsung smart phone and wasn't connected to laptop but both were nearer the router.  I was just wandering if my laptop is cabled will my phone loose connection to laptop due to poor wifi upstairs.

Thanks for all your help

 

 

 

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It might do. Normally when you plug an Ethernet cable into the LAN port of the Laptop that has an active Wi-fi interface. The Laptop gives more credence to the direct cabled interface and could stop using the wireless one. In that scenario, your smart phone would connect wirelessly to the router, then the data would go back up the cabled route to the Laptop. Thus the phone would be subject to the quality of the upstairs router Wi-fi signal received.

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One way you could test this would be to temporarily use the cable currently connected to the upstairs PC for your Laptop and then do some tests with the phone to see if communication is adversely affected.

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PS - The TP Link Gigabit 5 is a good choice, a well respected brand.

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A good compromise plan. The Powerline giving a very near equivalent of a direct cable connection. If it also has an RJ45 as well as Wi-fi (most do), then you could use the Powerline RJ45 for your RM Laptop. With the Wi-fi booster capability of the Powerline to support the phone. I'm just thinking that having your RM Laptop in effect connected via the RJ45 port rather than Wi-fi might trick RM into seeing the 'Static' address correctly.

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Right ok here goes.

 

Been upstairs to railway room ran laptop on wireless with static IP and on LAN but could not set static the IP as it lost my connection so started up with automatic IP. On both accounts my mobile connected ok to laptop and I ran loco for about 30 seconds before the green icon on mobile screen turned red and I lost connection. I went into another bedroom and the icon turned green and I ran a loco for around 2 minutes then went into the railway room and the icon turned red.

Brought laptop and elink downstairs reverted back to wireless, connected mobile and the icon has stayed green for over half an hour now and I have been running locos without the elink connected to the track.

 

So my assumption is that I can connect my mobile to my laptop without any problems, my problem is my wifi signal upstairs causing my mobile to loose connection with the laptop. Thing that is confusing me is I never loose internet connection via wifi upstairs when using tablet (would have used tablet as hand held but it would not insall even with RM's help) or phone or laptop in bed.

 

I will get the wireless powerline 300Mbps tomorrow and see if that works, if not I am going to get rid of RM and get a dynamisis wireless controller.

 

Thanks for all your help and advice Chris.

Steve

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The Wi-fi interface in the phone is probably a lower power radio signal compared to the Laptop and Tablet to conserve battery power. Perhaps also something else electrically in the railway room is causing localised Wi-fi interference. The propagation of radio waves is not symmetrical, just changing the orientation of the router can move radio dead spots around the house. If you could visually see radio waves in the air you wouldn't see a spherical ball with the router at the centre. It would look more like a flattened ball in the shape of a clover leaf with dips and hills. The railway room may be sitting in a radio dip between two leaves, but the room next door is sitting bang smack in the middle of a radio leaf, if that makes sense.

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Further to above. If I fully understood what you said in regard to your performed tests. It sounds as if the phone is not connecting directly to the Laptop via wireless but going via the downstairs router. That is to say when both the Laptop and the phone are in the railway room and both on Wi-fi. The laptop can access the Internet OK inferring that the Laptop does not have a significant issue with Wi-fi reception, but the phone on the other hand is problematic until it is moved to a location with better Wi-fi reception.

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This is consistent with the concept that the communication between the phone and Laptop goes via the router. Thus the phone being placed nearby to the Laptop makes no difference when placed in the phones poor Wi-fi reception location.

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Just to add to the previous reply about Wi-fi radio propagation. Not that I ever had an opportunity to do it myself but my company wireless LAN installers (corporate office type installations over multiple floors) used a special tester that allowed them to map out the wireless weak spots on each floor of the building. This then allowed them to select locations for wireless boosters with directional aerials to cover the wireless dead areas. This threw up some quite odd anomalies as you could get a dead spot quite near an aerial position but the same aerial provided good coverage in another office area that was further away, there was no logic to it. Every building was unique. If the company moved the office furniture around it was sometimes necessary to go back and re-locate the wireless distribution aerial positions to compensate for newly created dead spots.

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Having read some very informative stuff here Chris I do think it is worth pointing out that many things in the home or office can and will interfere with any wireless signal no matter how good...

 

These things can be as thus: radio waves, infra red, fridges, microwaves, metal and thick wooden beams in the walls and ceilings, fluourescent lighting, other wireless equipment (even from your neighbours especially if the equipment uses the same channel as you through your router) and many more. Curing the areas you mention with boosters or the likes can go some way to fix these but I have never installed them in a home or office environment... preferring to sort the issue with the equipment as more add-ons can only add to redundancy problems. 99 times out of 100 I will always have it sorted. This is personal of course and the user or client must have their wishes adhered to. I have been lucky in that my clients trust my word and actions... well, so far anyway :-)

 

Between us here we should should have this issue sorted for Steve very soon now... well, as you are doing most of the typing you must take most of the credit... :-)

 

Just one thing if I may for Steve... you found a TPLink switch... while that is good and can give decent service you may wish to consider a Netgear as they are a lot better. Try and buy one that offers 1000MB connections for 'future proofing'. They come with 4, 8, 16 or 32 and higher ports available. They also come in two types... managed and unmanaged. You will require the latter.

 

Mine is an 8 port unmanaged switch "Netgear Prosafe GS108" for the UK. That runs from a server too and is excellent. £28 on Amazing and free p&p. Of course the choice is yours but I do use these in network setups in offices and homes etc and have NEVER had an issue with any of them.

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@Chris

 

You said you would contact me via the form on my site... I don't know if you have as yet but I have removed the form as it was quite spurious at getting mail to me on another site I use that form (a small bug apparently - where have I heard that before?). I am in the process of replacing it.

 

Could you use the email link I supply on the same page for now as I have not received anything from you as yet... though you may not have sent anything so far!! Thanks Chris... :-)

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