Inconsistent Loco Stalling

[The Captain90]

 Just an update. I believe that Chris is right in that my problem is either the seep motor alignment or the switch itself. Haven't had time to pull the point up yet but when I do will post the result here. May be a few days away.

Thanks again to Chris and the others for your guidance.

Just as an aside. I have watched many Youtube videos on the technique for soldering the wires to the lugs on the Seep PM1. There are many different ways of tackling this but seek guidance on which way is best and easiest. A link to the best video explaining this would be great.

Happy New Year to all. Hopefully 2016 will see my layout going. The renovations are just about finished.

[Chrissaf]

I haven't reviewed these for content, but a selection of 'Soldering For Beginners' videos.

[The Captain90]

 Just an update. Removed the troublesome point and checked wiring underneath - all looks good. Saw that the point motor rod when moving point to right is pretty close to the hole in baseboard - but is not touching it. To eliminate this as the cause I increased the size of the hole from 10mm to 13mm. The rod is definately clear of the baseboard when moving and is aligned. Whilst the PM1 was out I cleaned the switch contacts.

Put everything back together and tested with multimeter - all good. Then had the loco go backwards and forwards through the points in both directions (thank goodness for Railmasters programming ability). This was fine for a while but the intemitant stalling started to occur. When the loco stalls if I put my hand under the baseboard and give the botton rod a push the loco continues. Watched under the baseboard and noticed that when the point fired to the left (my problem route) the pin moved back towards the centre by 2/3mm but was still clear of the contacts.

I now believe (correct me if I am mistaken) that the switch on the PM1 (or the whole unit) may be faulty. I have another and will swap them over when I have time and post the result.

[Chrissaf]

Captain, in my experience the bounce back usually occurs when the the alignment is off.

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Also, it may be mounted in the centre left and right, but it is not in exact parallel alignment with the throw of the point operating bar.

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If I am right, fitting a spare Seep to the same mounting holes may not cure it. Unless, of course, the manufacturing tolerance variations are different and in your favour. You would be best plugging the existing holes and refitting. Taking extra care on getting the parallel as well as centre alignment spot on.

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Also check to ensure the operating rod is standing vertical and not leaning either back towards the rear of the point or forward away from the point. Adjusting the Seep backwards or forwards to compensate as necessary. The tolerances for the switch part of the motor are so fine, any mis-alignment in ANY direction will cause a potential switch issue.

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My comments are based upon my personal experiences of fitting a lot of these.

[The Captain90]

 Thanks Chris. Will check the alignment as my next step. Given the baseboard is very small (its only a practice/programming track) I did my best to make sure the alignment was right. It was difficult to judge this on the small board so I guess it will be much hadger when the main layout is started.

Do you have any tips for making sure the alignment is right.

I did read or see somewhere that a tip is to use velcro to attach the motor under the baseboard, thus allowing for easy adjustment. Having seen the force the throw is I wonder if the velcro would hold the correct position. Did think I may try this then when satisfied all ok screw through the velcro.

 

[Chrissaf]

Strewth Captain, you really are asking me to put my head above the parapet to be shot at, whatever suggestion I make is bound to be contradicted by others with alternative……don’t do it that way…..do it this way replies.  All I can say to readers here is: I tried various methods, but this is the one I devised that worked for me and is described as follows:

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1) When the point is operated in each direction, the throw bar extends to its furthest reach. I used the end of the throw bar as a jig to allow the drilling of small marker holes at each end of the throw bar (no more than 1mm, but 0.6mm to 0.8mm is preferred). The idea is not to use these as screw pilot holes, but just holes to accurately transpose (mark) the throw bar position to the underside of the baseboard. Remember to throw the point in the other direction before drilling the second hole, so that the two marker holes are as far apart as possible. The further apart the holes are, the more accurate the marking out will be.

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2) On the underside, two small holes should now be visible that straddle equally the main central hole for the solenoid operating pin. Use a pencil and ruler to draw a line through the centre of the two marker holes. This should give a line that is:

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a) Parallel with the point throw bar

b) Directly below the point throw bar

c) Goes right through the centre of the larger centre operating hole.

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Now when offering up the Seep from underneath the board, the pencil line provides a visible guideline that can be positioned centrally at the two ends of the Seep PCB. This should ensure that the Seep is positioned accurately in two out of the three possible directions. This just leaves the left and right centre position to derive.

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3) Use two packing pieces (bits of cardboard or plastic sheet or whatever is suitable) to wedge between the moving rails and the fixed rails. The idea being to hold the hole in the middle of the operating throw bar centrally in the point.

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4) Offer up the Seep and align it up using the pencil line as a guide. Now that the throw bar is held in the centre by the packing pieces. It should be easy to see that the Seep operating bar is in the centre of its travel between the two coils. Mark a pilot hole position through the mounting hole at ONE end ONLY.

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5) Drill a small screw pilot hole (size to suit your intended screw).

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6) Offer up the Seep and fix with a single screw (the idea being is that if it is still not quite right when tested, you have a second chance to get it right using the other end. Plus there is a slight amount of rotational adjustment available.

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7) When tested and totally happy with operation, then drill the second pilot hole (other end of Seep) and put in the second screw.

 

[Chrissaf]

Addendum to my last post above: I should have added that when drilling the two small marker holes. It is imperative that they are drilled completely vertically. Any drill entry angle even if only off vertical by a couple of degrees will mean an error of a couple of MM or more once the drill bit has gone through a thickish baseboard.

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I stood a carpenters 'set square' on its end to give a 90 degree guide to position my battery drill against. It is amazing how many times something looks like being vertical to the eye, but isn't when offered up against a set square as a guide.

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Also, where I said

"guideline that can be positioned centrally at the two ends of the Seep PCB"

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This should have read:

"guideline that can be positioned centrally in line with the centre line of the solenoid coils"

[The Captain90]

That is a great idea in my opinion. Now to buy some fine drills. Better get a few as knowing my luck I will break some.

Thanks again Chris. Your knowledge is astounding.

Regards,

Gary 

[96RAF]

I got a tube of about 20 x 1mm drills from Maplin, spent ages looking for them and finally asked the staff who went straight to them.

[Chrissaf]

I get mine from e-bay....search "micro drills".....sell for peanuts on there.

[The Captain90]

Tried your point motor aligning technique (and I didn't break the drill, phew) . Found I was out of alignment by about 3mm. Have taken out one screw and realigned correctly and so far all good. Will do a bit more testing before filling in and redrilling hole.

I purchased on of the Seep Alignment jigs that was mentioned earlier and whilst it is good for marking the drill holes it too has to be perfectly in alignment with the track. Will etch a line directly in the middle of the plate that has the marking pins on it and use this line to line up with the penciled line Chris suggested. Guess it will do the same job as lining up the centre line of the solenoid coils.

Again thanks Chris and everyone else for your help.

Gary

[Chrissaf]

Captain (Gary), glad that you have light at the end of the tunnel. I've just reviewed my very first reply on page 1 of this thread. In the very first paragraph I suggested Seep alignment as the likely candidate for your issue.