Cobalt Slow Point Motor DCC control - RM - eLink

[PJ_model_trains]

Another consideration worhy of mention is that the makers/suppliers of the Cobalt motors is DCC Concepts who offer a generous Lifetime warranty. No connection.

 

TWD

 

Good point TWD   ;o)

[PJ_model_trains]

And Richard the owner is easy to get on with by email.

 

Another good point     LOL

Any more guys    ;o)

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi guys thanks for all your comments

 

Regarding Noise for the Cobalt iP Digital, I have just read ther advertisment which says.....

 

Cobalt iP Digital is compact, smooth and almost totally silent. Beautifully engineered and designed to last, it is supplied with a Lifetime Warranty. 

 

NOTE: smooth and almost totally silent.

 

Comments welcome guys, were you referring to the iP Digital or another model?

 

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi PJ

I always imagined that the slow action point motors were very quiet.  It appears from the above that you could go from a quick noisy clunk of a solenoid to a more lengthy motor grinding noise, with the ones described above.

 

So was I RDS

I think we have both read the same advertisement!

 

[Teedoubleudee]

I can say for definite they are not totally silent.............but I like 'em ;-)

[RB51]

The ones I have heard on a layout, which will not have been the latest iP versions, had a whirr very similar to a micro servo motor. I wouldn't like to comment on the new ones such as you are considering PJ. Until some bright spark gets a Piezo legs motor to do this job I think we are always going to have some noise, it just depends on whether you get along better with a whirr or a clunk. R-

[PJ_model_trains]

Thanks RogerB

 

I was just quoting the words from the advert which was referring to them being quiet, so this made me wonder were the noisy ones another model.

 

I just want to make sure if I 'whirr' to get some they 'whirr' reasonably quiet ones (as the advert)

 

Piezo legs this is a new one on me, sounds like someone had drunk to much alcohol. ;o)

 

May be I should get a point motor that wines!

 

[RB51]

Now your talking PJ - get me one at the same time. R-

[Fishmanoz]

Not sure about piezo legs, but piezo legless you certainly have to watch out for.  They sing sea shanties loudly and off key while they are changing points.  In fact, they may do this for no discernible reason at all if they are approaching maximum leglessness.

[RB51]

Actually thinking about it a bit more - I have heard the newer iP type motor but on a demo board when Richard (owner of a well known Australian company with amazing concepts!) was over here at my local model shop last year. They did seem a bit quieter but as I say, they (about 6 I think) were mounted on a small board to show how some new switches worked so that may not be very representative of their noise level on a baseboard with more resonance. Any chance you can get to see / hear some in action PJ? R-

[Bulleidboy]

If you operate a Cobalt iP in your hand, it is very quiet indeed, almost just like a small vibration, but once mounted underneath a plywood top there is a significant noise increase. I did think about using rubber grommets, but after a quick look on ebay, I couldn't find any small enough. As I said in my original post, I used the sponge rubber pad supplied as a "buffer" between motor and the plywood, and this made no difference, but it would only need one of the four screws to be in contact with the motor (which of course they all do), and any noise will be transmitted to the board. The sponge pads are of a fairly dense foam, with a peel-off back on both sides, once in place on the motor, they are very difficult to remove, but they do come off the ply, even when the ply has been sealed, fairly easily, this is why I did not rely on them for mounting on there own. The whole operation of point changing takes a couple of seconds, and I have not found it intrusive - I just thought I wouldn't hear them at all. I would certainly use them again.

[Nick_]

OK, I've just done some science :-)

I have a dB meter on my iPad:

The ambient noise in my office/railway room/shed is 40dB peaking to 48dB. This is with PCs running, traffic noise outside etc

The 'click from switching a Peco point with a Peco PL11 surface mounted point motor taken at 1 pencil length from the point is 82bD

The 'click' from switching a Hornby point with a Hornby surface mounted point motor taken at 1 pencil length from the point is 79dB

The 'whirr' from a Cobalt IP digital taken at 1 pencil length from the point is 62db (this is over a longer duration than the 'click')

My baseboard is 1/2" ply on 2x2 braced frame bolted to the plywood lined walls of the shed. Thus it is going to be a bit of a soundbox and amplify rather than dampen noise. The Peco & Hornby point motors are nailed/screwed directly to the baseboard. The IP digitals are mounted underneath using the sticky rubber pad and screws provided. I did not notice any noise level difference before/after the screws were added.

As my layout is still under construction the IP digitals have very new have had only be thrown a few times for testing/test running, they may get quieter with use (or they may not).

Hope this helps

[RB51]

Well done Nick - we like science. Not much in it then? Just a bit longer noise for the Cobalt. R-

[Teedoubleudee]

How long is your pencil?  <smiley face>

[PJ_model_trains]

Actually thinking about it a bit more - I have heard the newer iP type motor but on a demo board when Richard (owner of a well known Australian company with amazing concepts!) was over here at my local model shop last year. They did seem a bit quieter but as I say, they (about 6 I think) were mounted on a small board to show how some new switches worked so that may not be very representative of their noise level on a baseboard with more resonance. Any chance you can get to see / hear some in action PJ? R-

 

Only if I buy then RogerB  ;o)

 

[PJ_model_trains]

If you operate a Cobalt iP in your hand, it is very quiet indeed, almost just like a small vibration, but once mounted underneath a plywood top there is a significant noise increase. I did think about using rubber grommets, but after a quick look on ebay, I couldn't find any small enough. As I said in my original post, I used the sponge rubber pad supplied as a "buffer" between motor and the plywood, and this made no difference, but it would only need one of the four screws to be in contact with the motor (which of course they all do), and any noise will be transmitted to the board. The sponge pads are of a fairly dense foam, with a peel-off back on both sides, once in place on the motor, they are very difficult to remove, but they do come off the ply, even when the ply has been sealed, fairly easily, this is why I did not rely on them for mounting on there own. The whole operation of point changing takes a couple of seconds, and I have not found it intrusive - I just thought I wouldn't hear them at all. I would certainly use them again.

 

Thanks BB

maybe use foam pads and the sscrew fittings then they don't fall off ;o)

 

[PJ_model_trains]

OK, I've just done some science :-)

I have a dB meter on my iPad:

The ambient noise in my office/railway room/shed is 40dB peaking to 48dB. This is with PCs running, traffic noise outside etc

The 'click from switching a Peco point with a Peco PL11 surface mounted point motor taken at 1 pencil length from the point is 82bD

The 'click' from switching a Hornby point with a Hornby surface mounted point motor taken at 1 pencil length from the point is 79dB

The 'whirr' from a Cobalt IP digital taken at 1 pencil length from the point is 62db (this is over a longer duration than the 'click')

My baseboard is 1/2" ply on 2x2 braced frame bolted to the plywood lined walls of the shed. Thus it is going to be a bit of a soundbox and amplify rather than dampen noise. The Peco & Hornby point motors are nailed/screwed directly to the baseboard. The IP digitals are mounted underneath using the sticky rubber pad and screws provided. I did not notice any noise level difference before/after the screws were added.

As my layout is still under construction the IP digitals have very new have had only be thrown a few times for testing/test running, they may get quieter with use (or they may not).

Hope this helps

 

Thanks for going to sso much trouble Nick_

 

Sound is measured 0-120dBa

My hearing s not good, dead on the right and average 35dBa on the left

 

Comparing what you have recorded 

80dBa is quite loud, about that of an alarm clock, only with solenoid Click-Click

60dBa however is significanly lower and considered an acceptable level similar to peoples speech (average level I think) WHAT!

 

This seems acceptable I think. Again thank you for the trouble you have gone to Nick_

 

I am also considering that... a solenoid also sounds above the board as well as below whereasa a Cobalt IP will basically sound under the boards.

 

My layout will be on 18mm plywood on a 3x1 frame.

 

[Nick_]

Roger, a 20 dB difference equates to a 1/10 of the audio amplitude so the IP digital is a bit quieter, but the noise goes on for longer so yes it really is swings and roundabouts. I suspect if the baseboard wasn't ply and it wasn't bolted to the wall the noise levels would be a bit lower.

TDD My pencil has been sharpened a couple of times so, having measured it, it's just under 7" long ;-)

My choice: As my layout evolves and where I have space under the baseboard I will use IP digitals. Seeing the point blades move slowly across is much more realistic and the electro-frog wiring is really easy too. Where they won't fit I will have to continue to use surface mounted point motors and watch the blades bang across and use a frog juicer to handle the frog where necessary.

[Rog RJ]

If anyone wants to try using grommets to reduce the sound level they are available here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8718__Rubber_Grommet_for_servos_10pcs_set_.html  and from other hobby and radio control suppliers.

[Nick_]

PJ

I am also considering that... a solenoid also sounds above the board as well as below whereasa a Cobalt IP will basically sound under the boards

I forgot to mention that my layout is 50" above floor level because it runs right around my office and is higher than my desk and PC monitor which fit underneath it. So with a 'normal' height layout yes things should be quieter

[Bulleidboy]

Of course the way around all of this is to have a sound equipped loco with the boiler safety valve "blowing-off" - you won't hear anything - even the wife saying dinners ready!

[PJ_model_trains]

PJ

I am also considering that... a solenoid also sounds above the board as well as below whereasa a Cobalt IP will basically sound under the boards

I forgot to mention that my layout is 50" above floor level because it runs right around my office and is higher than my desk and PC monitor which fit underneath it. So with a 'normal' height layout yes things should be quieter

 

Hi Nick_

I cannot walk easy so I will be sat down, therefore the layout will be much lower.

Sound also travels on horizontal plains so sound under the board is probably 400-500mm below hearing level. 

That must be worth minus another 10/15dBa  ;o)

 

[PJ_model_trains]

If anyone wants to try using grommets to reduce the sound level they are available here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8718__Rubber_Grommet_for_servos_10pcs_set_.html  and from other hobby and radio control suppliers.

 

Thanks Rog (RJ)

Plenty on eBay too. Lots of mixed packs but if you sort through there are some one size packs.

I guess rubber washers would also do the job.  ;o)

 

[PJ_model_trains]

I found this video on YouTube for installing a Cobalt iP motor

 

Wiring a DCC Concepts Cobalt point motor

 

The noise of the motor is clear from a close position to the microphone to the motor

 

There are also some neat cable connectors plugging 5 into 5, does anyone know what they are called (cable connectors!!!) and where I could get some?

 

[Chrissaf]

The terminal strips with pins shown in the video are made by "CamdenBoss" they are 12 way but can be cut into two lengths of 5 with 2 left over. CamdenBoss part number is CTSN431/12MF They go under the general description name of 'Pluggable Terminal Strips' or sometimes 'Plug-in Terminal Strips' useful to know if Googling.

.

Readily available on the net, but purely as an example supplier you can see the product here on Rapid On-line

.

PS - Three sizes are available. The ones in the video were the smallest 6A (8mm) size. This is the size shown in my link and for the stated CamdenBoss part number.