Decoder programming issue

[winman]

Good Evening All. Just put decoders (non hornby) into 4 loco's, 3 Hornby & 1 Bachman, as I place them onto the length of track I use for programming they all kick into power for a second or two (happened to them all). But once programmed they show no sign of movement or response at all. Any idea's? Is it something i'm doing... I've not had this issue with any of the previous loco's i've programmed.

 

Thanks for any responses.

Will.

[WilliamDavid]

Do you mean they don't respond on the programming track or on the main track?

They won't respond on the programming track.

[winman]

Won't respond on either 

[Nick_]

What controller are you using?

when on the programming track, after programming, can you read back all the CVs to see they are set to the values you wanted? 

 

[96RAF]

Prog track is purposely limited for current to preclude damage to decoder in event of duff wiring, etc so no a loco will not move under normal control.

think about it Prog track for programming, and normal track for normal ops.

the best you can hope for is a motor jerk or lights flash to indicate the programming procedure has acknowledged the requested actions.

[winman]

Hornby Elite, i'm setting to programme, for example loco ID 14, it's accepting that programme, but wont run on 14. All Cv's are as I want them. 

 

To update on the above, I can get 2 of the 4 working. But they both run on programmed ID 3, which I haven't entered. 

[Chrissaf]

To update on the above, I can get 2 of the 4 working. But they both run on programmed ID 3, which I haven't entered

.

In which case they are not accepting your programming, as ID 3 is the factory default. Make sure you programme them with your track disconnected from the track output of the Elite controller, so only the programming track is connected to the 'programming' output of the Elite and the 'Track' output of the Elite is left unconnected. This is known to sometimes help.

.

You say that the decoders are non Hornby. You won't be breaking any forum rules to tell us what brand they are. They might be a brand with known issues.

.

Others that have had decoders that fail to programme Address IDs have successfully programmed Address IDs using the Elite 'Register' programming mode. See page 27 of the 1.41 Elite manual.

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EDIT: original text above amended to provide additional clarity in light of winman reply posted directly below.

[winman]

So from the programming track, just leave the small section that is plugged to the Elite? 

[96RAF]

Another way round this is to attach a short length of track to the track terminals and program changes to cv1 (address) using operations mode of programming as opposed to direct mode on the Prog track terminals 

Something to note is make sure your track connector is a DCC one and not a DC (with capacitor) one.

[winman]

They are TCS Keep Alive decoders, i'll try the Elite register Programming mode now.

[Chrissaf]

In that case, you would be advised to temporarily disconnect the TCS Stay Alive capacitor whilst programming. There is some evidence that some controllers don't like the capacitor being present as it distorts the programming signal. It is alledged, that the programming output on the Hornby controllers use a very low power signal compared to some other controller brands.

.

I daresay others with TCS stay alives will come back and say no issues with theirs, so treat my comment as unproven and only a rumour.

[96RAF]

I've seen forum discussion on stay alives where folk have had to install a prog switch to knock the caps out of circuit whilst programming.

[winman]

just for the sake of it, I tried the Elite manual programming method, which hasn't worked as it still reads '0003'. So my next step is to temprarily disconnect the stay alive capacitor...

[96RAF]

Try the prog on main (POM) operations method but make sure only that loco is on the main track at the time.

[Chrissaf]

Just to clarify Robs suggestion. The POM programming mode in the Elite manual is referred to as the 'Operate' programming mode. The reason that might be more successful is that this mode does not remove the output power. Thus the programming signal uses the full output voltage as a 'carrier' and is not at such a low signal level as the normal programming output, thus it is less susceptable to the effect of the 'Stay Alive' capacitor.

.

If you do use this mode be very careful to isolate any decoder that you do not wish to program. To ensure this, I would disconnect both outputs from the Elite. The 'Track' output and the 'Programming' output, then connect your piece of programming track to the 'Track' output of the Elite. Then configure the Elite for 'Operate' mode to perform the addressing. Once the Elite has been taken out of the 'Operate' programming mode, then you can test the loco straight away whilst still on your programming track piece as it is now connected to your Elite 'Track' output.

[Nick_]

Using Railmaster/eLink I have had no problems programming TCS decoders with the stay-alive connected, obvious can say for the elite though.

[winman]

Thanks so much for your help everyone! Got then all programmed correctly now! Sorry for being a pain!

[Chrissaf]

Winman, since many suggestions were offered. For reference for the future should a similar question come up again, what was your working solution.

[winman]

i re tried to programme the loco's as I usually would, on the programming track, with outputs in the 'prog' slots connected to the test track. Took 3 attempts for a couple of them to be programmed but all run fantastic now!

[choralc]

With a new already DCC fitted loco yesterday I tried twice using RM with elite to change to a long address and when checking by reading it still said address of 3. Then wrote and checked using elite alone and the new address had taken on the third time. Bad contact? Dirty rollers? But third time okay. Note not always a problem using RM but I often use elite by itself if laptop isn't on.

[Chrissaf]

Winman, so basically it was either dirty rails on the programming track, dirty wheels on the loco or a combination of them both. I also take it, that the programming was finally completed with the 'Stay Alive' capacitor in-situ.

[96RAF]

One thing to remember when programming with the Elite is that you have to tell the decoder that you want to use long addressing BEFORE you can set that long address (RM does it for you directly by way of the set long address icon which calls up a dialogue).

 

With Elite this means going in the Config menu and toggling short to long address, punching through the rest of the config options,  then go back and set the long address of your choice.

 

The decoder will hold both a short and long address in memory but will only respond to the option selected (short or long).

 

Of interest the factory default or reset decoder short address is 003, whereas it is 100 for a long address. This allows you to check if a new (to you) decoder has been set to short or long previously by trying to run a loco on 3 or 100 and see if it responds.

[Rog RJ]

One thing to remember when programming with the Elite is that you have to tell the decoder that you want to use long addressing BEFORE you can set that long address (RM does it for you directly by way of the set long address icon which calls up a dialogue).

 

With Elite this means going in the Config menu and toggling short to long address, punching through the rest of the config options,  then go back and set the long address of your choice.

 

 

I have never had to do that for a loco decoder, does it only apply to accessory decoders or when programming on the main?

 

[Rog RJ]

I use the sequence Loco, direct, address,  write or read. Job done.

[96RAF]

@Rog

Only for loco decoders when you want to assign a long address from the Elite.

 

If you do as you have done, which is a perfectly valid sequence, then the Elite should not write a long address unless you have preset Config to long address (or is it called extended address in the menu - can't remember and the train pc is off).