Convert standard Flight Of The Mallard Train Set loco to TTS?

[WeeWillyWinky]

Newbie alert - do not read further if this offends 😆

Title says it all basically. I'm pretty new to this (well I had a set in the 1970s but have only just got back to it). On taking a bit of advice from people, I understood that it is relatively straight forward to upgrade DCC ready Hornby locomotives to DCC versions, and that you can also get sound if you use the right chip (the Sapphire chip was recommended to me).

The problem is that I cannot seem to be able to locate the chip on sale that will make a standard Hornby loco to the TTS version. In all the descriptions of the Sapphire chip I have read, there is no mention of sound whatsoever, so it is pretty clear to me that this is not going to be the answer. Is it possible to buy the TTS chip from Hornby - is it a seperate sound chip, or does it do movement and sound both?

I will be very disappointed if I cannot convert this loco as I was always intending on doing so (I got the set half price, hence why I did not buy the TTS outright). I know Hattons doe a sound chipping service but that costs silly money (easily over a a hundred pounds), while the hope point of TTS is that it is a budget option in reach of non wealthy people like me.

Hope someone can advise. Cheers

[Chrissaf]

 WWW, welcome to the forum with your 1st post......and welcome to the world of DCC sound for people with deep pockets.

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Many people since the launch of Hornby TTS have bemoaned the fact that Hornby DO NOT sell the TTS sound decoder as an after market upgrade. Any that you do find for sale will be second hand removed from a TTS loco and be of doubtful quality, possibly faulty. There are many posts on here regarding users who have issues with TTS decoders not performing as per their expectations. Some subsequently replace them with an alternative. Hence the second hand market. Registered Service Centres can obtain TTS decoders as a spare part, but only for performing repairs to an existing TTS locomotive (under warranty for example). Just to give a balanced view, there are also many forum users on here who have many TTS locos in their fleets without issue.

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There are no known plans for Hornby to have a change of heart on this policy.

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In answer to your generic points raised.

 

• The TTS decoder is a single PCB performing both motor operation and sound functions, it is not a separate sound device.
• The Sapphire decoder IS NOT a sound capable decoder. It is just a more fully featured motor control decoder marketed by Hornby to supplement their entry level basic ones.
• Over £100 is the normal going rate for fitting a Loksound type Sound decoder and speaker. There are some cheaper options (but not significantly cheaper) of lower quality, Google search Mylocosound for example.

[WeeWillyWinky]

 WWW, welcome to the forum with your 1st post......and welcome to the world of DCC sound for people with deep pockets.

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Many people since the launch of Hornby TTS have bemoaned the fact that Hornby DO NOT sell the TTS sound decoder as an after market upgrade. Any that you do find for sale will be second hand removed from a TTS loco and be of doubtful quality, possibly faulty. There are many posts on here regarding users who have issues with TTS decoders not performing as per their expectations. Some subsequently replace them with an alternative. Hence the second hand market. Registered Service Centres can obtain TTS decoders as a spare part, but only for performing repairs to an existing TTS locomotive (under warranty for example). Just to give a balanced view, there are also many forum users on here who have many TTS locos in their fleets without issue.

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There are no known plans for Hornby to have a change of heart on this policy.

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In answer to your generic points raised.

 

• The TTS decoder is a single PCB performing both motor operation and sound functions, it is not a separate sound device.
• The Sapphire decoder IS NOT a sound capable decoder. It is just a more fully featured motor control decoder marketed by Hornby to supplement their entry level basic ones.
• Over £100 is the normal going rate for fitting a Loksound type Sound decoder and speaker. There are some cheaper options (but not significantly cheaper) of lower quality, Google search Mylocosound for example.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the comprehensive response, and apologies for my 'generic' question. I honestly did google the TTS chip quite a bit, but did not come across an answer to my specific question - possibly my lack of knowledge of insider jargon hindered me.

Was just wondering if this might do the trick:

http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/index.php

This chip does both sound and control and is at a bargain price. Yes it is American, but it is my understanding that you can run HO locos on 00 gauge, so am hoping that will apply to chips as well? It is also (relatively) a bargain price. I know it will not authentically mimic the Mallards actual sounds, but it if it sounds like a decent reproduction of a steam locomotive, that is enought for me. Thanks

 

[Chrissaf]

No apology necessary WWW. The questions were perfectly valid and well constructed with plenty of detail (something we see too little of).

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The SoundTrax falls into the same category as Mylocosound (for comparison the Mylocosound is £55). Looking at the website you provided a link for, the decoder is NMRA 21 pin compliant, so although US HO based, there is no technical reason why it should not be suitable for UK OO models. The Sounds might have a bias towards US steam locos like whistles for example.

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The installation guide was very comprehensive and for my skill set easy to follow. You will need some soldering skills to install this decoder.

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If you create a brand new topic in the DCC section with a title like "SoundTrax Decoders" then you could ask in a new question whether anybody here is using this sound decoder and what their views are. Perhaps asking where they got them from. I did a very quick Google and I couldn't identify a UK based supplier (assuming you're UK based yourself).

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Just a TIP. As your reply was directly below the one you were quoting (you used the Blue Quote button with the arrow in it. This is not a 'reply' button). My reply was duplicated in the quote box unnecessarily. Best to scroll down to the bottom of the page and put your reply in the large blank empty 'reply' text box and use the 'Green Reply' button. This reply is an example of using that alternative reply procedure.

[Chrissaf]

WWW, being doing some more digging regarding Soundtrax. Digitrains (UK) are a well respected importer and retailer of products from world wide sources.

[96RAF]

Although you seem to be going down the non TTS sound route W-W-W - I just looked on eBay for Hornby TTS decoders and there is one suitable a FS or P2 or A3 listed for 60 quid, so they are selling well over the odds compared to the difference between a TTS and non TTS loco.

 

I converted my R2339 Mallard, which has the post and clamp loco/tender power transfer method, by simply swapping the existing decoder for a TTS decoder and running 2 wires back to the tender where the speaker is mounted face up sounding out through some 1mm holes drilled in the coal load (hardly noticable at normal viewing range).

 

From memory I also had to trim the tender body inside a little to clear the speaker enclosure..

 

I used an ex FS decoder as it is a 3 cylinder loco same as Mallard and the chime and screech whistles are a reasonable match. Not good enough for the purist but with my hearing its close enough for Government work as we used to say.

 

No pictures of the conversion unfortunately as it would mean pulling it all apart again.

[96RAF]

You didn't spot Chris's tip about not repeating the previous text then ... 😳

 

Just a TIP. As your reply was directly below the one you were quoting (you used the Blue Quote button with the arrow in it. This is not a 'reply' button). My reply was duplicated in the quote box unnecessarily. Best to scroll down to the bottom of the page and put your reply in the large blank empty 'reply' text box and use the 'Green Reply' button. This reply is an example of using that alternative reply procedure.

[Chrissaf]

Strangely Rob, I don't think WWW is responsible on this occasion for ignoring TIP. The post of his you are referring to was originally ABOVE my TIP comment post. For some reason Adam has moved it (see the Approved / Moved annotation that has been added at the end). The original timing was 00:28, my TIP comment was later at 09:00. I can't see any amendment to it, it looks absolutely the same as I remember the original. So why it was moved is a mystery.

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Apart from the timing I would have had to have been a clairvoyant as I told WWW apologies were not needed before his post actually made an apology, thus they are now out of sequence for some inexplicable reason.

[96RAF]

Oh dear what a muddle of timings - apologies all round.

[Chrissaf]

WWW found some more useful (fairly important) information regarding the SoundTrax decoder that you are interested in. It transpires that there can be issues with reading and writing CVs to this decoder because of the amount of power the sound circuits suck out of the meagre current that is available on the 'programming' track.

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Check out this web review of a PowerPax 'programming booster'

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Have a look at this previous post (5th post down on the page) where a US forum user has a PowerPax linked up to his Hornby eLink to successfully overcome sound decoder programming issues.

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The point I am trying to get across here is that the SoundTrax sound decoder may be a false economy, if you have to spend another £40 to buy a booster box to program it. Of course, if the intention is to have many more sound locos, then the cost of a PowerPax could be more attractive if it eliminates issues.

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Comment for the flyby reader:

There are many posts on the forum, regarding reading & writing CVs on sound decoders for other brands as well. I'm wondering if this PowerPax 'programming' booster box would be a solution for those issues as well.

[Rog RJ]

Another option I seem to member reading is to ADD more resistance in series to the programming track.  Seem to remember 100 ohms being about right.  The extra resistance cuts the programming current taken by the decoder allowing programming to work as normal.  I may be mistaken but it would be worth trying for the cost of a resistor.

[Chrissaf]

You might be out by a factor of 10.

The resistor value I have seen mentioned is 10 ohms @ 2 watts

[Rog RJ]

You could be right Chris.  It's a long while since I read about it and I've been to sleep since then.

[Fishmanoz]

A little simple Ohm's Law arithmetic tells me that for 15 volts track/programming output and a relatively high current of 1 amp, the internal resistance of the decoder would be looking like 225 ohms, so 100 ohms in series would severely limit voltage to the decoder.  That pretty much confirms 10 ohms would be correct.

 

However, it also occurs to me that turning the sound off with the appropriate function while connected to track output may well limit current draw and allow programming without need for a booster or resistor.  I may be wrong of course but worth a try?

[96RAF]

Remember the Elite already has a pair of 51R - 1Watt resistors  installed to limit the programming current - one in each Prog output line.

 

You may wish to include this in your calcs.

[Chrissaf]

Assuming a similar design in the eLink, maybe that's why the US forum user used the PowerPax programming booster with his eLink. Adding even more resistance to resistors already built in to lower programming current possibly not helpful. Maybe the 2 x 51R value would work better in programming sound decoders if they were a lower value not higher. I'm sure the eLink / Elite circuit designers came up with that 51R value for a reason, but none of us will ever know.

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PS - Maybe the choice of 51R in the circuit was a decision made before Sound Decoders came on the market and the eLink / Elite circuit has never been reviewed in light of new decoder technology on the market.

[96RAF]

Going back to the OP (regardless of if he goes pucka sound decoder or not as it may be of use to his conversion ) here is a shot of the conversion I did to my R2339 Mallard. Note the speaker enclosure.

 

Although the holes in the coal hopper are quite large the holes in the covering coal load were only 1mm diam and not noticeable at normal viewing range.

 

The loco retains the standard post and clamp loco/tender attachment taking power from tender pickups to motor.

 

 

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