Are problems caused by duplicate CV's on Select Controller ?

[Jimbo1707820979]

Hello All

I have just had a decoder installed in my "County of Bedford" with the CV of no. 4. Arriving home I tried out the loco but had some really weird results - running like a bat out of Hell, slowing sometimes of its own accord and not responding to the Select at all, even to stop. I also had problems on this CV number with a 57xx pannier tank, with disorganised responses. However, I have just retried the 57xx on CV 4 and it runs reasonably well (previously this loco had a different CV but it was changed, at my request on my dealer's controller when a gear repair was done).

To cut a long story short, is there any experience of strange happenings with the Select if using duplicate or even triplicate CV's. ?  I Have 3 locos running on no. 3 without any problems at all.

Could the wild running be a defect in the new chip do you think ? If anyone can offer some advice I would be very grateful. The reason I have used duplicate/triplicate CV's is purely for simplicity when keying in the number. Bad idea ?

[St1ngr4y]

Hi Jim,

First of all, it might be a good idea if we get the terminology right. I think by CV you mean the DCC address of the loco decoder. In fact, CV is short for Configuration Variable and each decoder has a number of these CVs which are numbered from 1 upwards. CV1 contains the address of the loco. If you want to use an address >255 for a loco there are two other CVs which require changing too, but I digress. Using the same address for 2 or 3 different locos is ok, but defeats the object of DCC to a certain extent. When you select loco 3, do you have all three locos with this address running at the same time, or do you have two of them on isolated tracks somewhere?

In any case, the duplication of addresses shouldn't adversely affect the running of your County of Bedford, but the values given to other CVs on its decoder could. What make of decoder was fitted to this loco? Did you receive an instruction leaflet with it? This should explain the use of other CVs on the decoder e.g. acceleration/deceleration.

Ray

[Jimbo1707820979]

Hi Ray

Thanks for setting me right about the terminology. I guess I was just being a bit slipshod in using "CV" instead of "Address".

Actually all my decoders ( about 12 ) are Hornby R8249 as far as I know. As I am a beginner I haven't yet ventured into changing the CV settings on any locos as I want to keep things fairly simple for now, although I have the leaflet . I have used multiple Addresses on differing kinds of locos unlikely to be run at the same time, but I also have two separate ovals I can run them on if need be. But I guess I must face using 2-digit Addresses for any new arrivals otherwise things may get a bit chaotic and the air correspondingly blue.

Anyway, thanks also for the reassurance that duplication of Addresses is unlikely to have any adverse effects (in Japan, I am told, there are many houses with the same number in the same street. Wouldn't like to be Postman Pat there ! 😆 )

Still open for comments on the defective decoder possibility, or could it be incorrect installation ? (daren't mention the latter !!)

[Chrissaf]

As I am a beginner I haven't yet ventured into changing the CV settings on any locos as I want to keep things fairly simple for now

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Jimbo, just be aware for the future. The Select controller you have is very limited in what it can do. It can change CV1 (the loco Address) it can also change Acceleration and Deceleration (CVs 3 & 4) but it can't read or write to the bulk of the CV's that might be supported on a decoder. Fortunately for you, the R8249 is equally limited in what CVs it supports as well, so the Select limitations are not quite so much of an issue.

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The one (almost essential to have at some point in time) capability it doesn't have is the ability to write decimal 8 to CV8 (decoder factory reset).

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The Select will also limit you to only being able to give your locos addresses in the 01 to 59 range.

[2e0dtoeric]

Runaway loco's - First thing to look at - is the track spotlessly clean?

                             Second thing - are the wheels and pick-ups spotlessly clean? They might have an anti-corrosion 'film' on them, as it is a new loco.

It is a known fact that a dirty track can cause the DCC signal to look like an analogue one, to the decoder, which then 'sees' full volts, and shoots off like an escaping greyhound.

With your Select, you cannot turn off the DC running cv. You will have to get someone with a better controller to do that for you.

As has been said, it is not a good idea to have several loco's with the same address, because if they all happen to be on a 'live' track, they will ALL respond!

Whenever you buy a new decoder, or a new dcc loco, it will be set to 03 already - that is the 'default' setting, to make it easier for pre-sale testing, etc. So try to avoid using 03 on your layout!

That is fine for the first test, to make sure the new decoder/loco works, but then you should change to to a unique one to avoid confusion and crashes!

I keep a paper list of which loco has which code, as I have quite a few sitting on the track, then it is a matter of a second or so, to see which code I need, to get something to move.

[Fishmanoz]

You certainly should bite the bullet, put your locos on the track one at a time (most important to not have 2 or more on together for this) and follow the very simple Select instructions to change the loco IDs so that they are all different, and none of them are 03.  As 2e0 says, you keep 03 clear so that you can do initial test running of new locos or decoders before changing them too.

 

If you have problems changing addresses (if it doesn't work, it will remain on 03), make sure everything is clean as 2e0 says, and also try gentle pressure on the loco as you tell the Select to make the change.

[Jimbo1707820979]

Many thanks, gents, for all your tips. I have noted them down for reference.  I haven't got more than 59 locos yet (but at the rate I'm going it won't be long !) Just bought new Class 42xx and awaiting delivery. However, I am getting very wary of buying used locos,  so it may hopefully slow me down. A bit like methadone for an addict I suppose 🤐

Track and wheel cleanliness noted. Absolutely vital to avoid going mental.  I am a keen user of IPA and Peco Track Rubber. I also invested in an Elite Controller but have not installed it yet because my 5-year-old grandson is still practicing on the Select. With good success, I'm glad to say. He also spots any specks of dirt on track or wheels with his eagle eyesight, which is lucky for me.Seems to be taking over the role of the Fat Controller ! A bit bossy, too ! 😆

So I am aiming for reliability and reasonable simplicity of operation as I go along. I will also bite the bullet, soon,Fish, and simplify my addresses - using an isolated programming track.

[Howbi]

@ Jimbo.............You're missing a trick here, as you have already bought the Elite why don't you just connect it up to a piece of test/program track and re-address your locos and adjust any other CV's as required especially CV29 to turn off DC running then you and your grandson will have much more fun on the layout even using the Select. HB

[Jimbo1707820979]

Thanks, Howbiman. Good idea, even if I am running out of space a little. And have to keep those busy little exploring hands away from "strange" things. It definitely is the answer, rather than letting the Elite sit in a cupboard unused.

[Fishmanoz]

You'll also find them quite different to use running locos, the throttles I mean. Having started using the Elite, I now wouldn't bother taking the Select out of the bottom drawer, although many do.

 

The grandson will have it sussed in a flash, probably quicker than you.  And I don't believe there are any obvious ways to get into trouble without going through the precise menu system needed to access any of the advanced features.

 

The big advantage, at least for me - 4 digit long IDs which you can set for 4 of the 5 running number digits so it will be easy to remember IDs.  You also won't be limited in the number of locos, at least not for a very long time.