GreenGiraffe22 Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 So, some of you will know I'm an enthusiastic Southern Rail collector, so naturally I've bought most of the range of Simply Southern wagons, unfortunately they use Dapol models and for whatever reason, Dapol wagons just do not like staying on the rails on my track, the amount of derailments I get from them is ridiculous! (Anyone else had Dapol woes?) Anyway, I thought to myself, the wheels are probably the problem, so I swapped some over with ones I had laying around and problem solved! I don't know what brand they were but they work! So, I'm in a model train store and I see spare Bachmann Branchline wagon wheels hanging up, and I go ahead and assume that all 00 wagon wheels will be fine on basic 4 wheeled wagons... How foolish of me. I started swapping over the wheels and one or two work fine, but most are really, really stiff... to the point my locos sturggle to pull more than 2 coupled together, I just wondered if there was an easy way to to unstiffen them, make the holes they click in to bigger, perhaps?
walkingthedog Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Hold a small drill bit in your fingers and use it to deepen the holes slightly. I don't get many derailments on my layout but if I do I guarantee it's a Dapold wagon.
2e0dtoeric Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Are the replaced wheels the right diameter?? They might be binding on the chassis!
Nick_ Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I have had the same problem with a couple of GWR Dapol wagons. I happened to have a pack of Hornby 12.6mm spoked wheels (R8098) and so switched them over. No problems since and all free-running.
walkingthedog Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 The worse one are 6 wheel tankers. I needed up removing the centre set of wheels.
poppasmurf Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I only have one Dapol item of rolling stock - a Fruit 'D' long wheelbase wagon - which continually derails at several points on my layout. The only wagon to do so. So it spends all it's time in a siding. I won't be buying any more Dapol items of any sort.
Wobblinwheel Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Have any of you checked/adjusted back-to-back measurements on these offending wheelsets (assuming they can be adjusted)?? To my knowledge, improper wheel spacing is the ONLY reason a particular wheelset would derail in points. Seems a lot cheaper than replacing wheels! I have found this to be a very common problem with a lot of my British rolling stock! In most cases, I have found the wheels too close together. Just remove the wheels, place them on the track, and shift them side-to-side. Some wheels out-of-the-box when pushed to one side, nearly drop-off the rail on the other. That ain't gonna work in points!
walkingthedog Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 It's not the back to back WW. The wheels just don't seem to like being wheels.
Wobblinwheel Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 It's not the back to back WW. The wheels just don't seem to like being wheels.Why? Can you be more specific? Are they out-of-round? Flanges too large (pizza cutter), or too shallow? Tread area too narrow, ot wide? What can it be? Ever since we Americans invented the wheel, we've pretty well perfected it.......of course, between the British and the Chinese, who knows....
2e0dtoeric Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Ah, come on, Wobbly, the Americans didn't invent the wheel, they stole it from us Brits, who stole it from the Romans, who stole it from - - - 😛
2e0dtoeric Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 The Irish invented the three-cornered wheel, it wa ideal for their bumpy cart-tracks! 😛
Wobblinwheel Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Ah, come on, Wobbly, the Americans didn't invent the wheel, they stole it from us Brits, who stole it from the Romans, who stole it from - - - 😛i knew that would stir-up somebody....but seriously, what can be wrong with a wheel?? What makes them different from other wheels? There's gotta be a reason!
walkingthedog Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 There must be something about their geometry, they don't seem to like curves.
81F Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I seem to have the same problem with some of the my GWR toads. Most of them are fine but a few just like trowingthemselves off my PECO points regardless of which wheels I tried. In the and I fit all my Hornby/Dapol/Airfix Gwr Toads (same moulding) with DAPOL wheels and wide couplings
Wobblinwheel Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 I wish I could get my hands on some of this stuff. I would really love to see one of these wheelsets that won't go thru a set of points, or curves. I take it these are on stock that do not have pivoting trucks, and possibly a long wheelbase? This could indicate an improper flange contour. Are the flanges on these wheels rather "sharp", compared to others? All that can be fixed....quickly (and easily). If the wheels can be pulled from their axles, pull off one wheel and put the axle in an electric drill and "round-off" the flange by spinning it against sandpaper. Do the same on all wheels. Check Back-to-back, and try again. If flanges are unusually sharp or too tall, they ain't gonna like some points, or track joints in curves. In my business, this is the difference between a mechanic and a "parts-changer".....
LCDR Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 Things to beware when swapping wheel sets is the distance over the pin-points . Different companies use slightly different lengths.They can vary from 24.5mm to 26 mm. I find it best to fit any I am uncertain about with Romford pin-point brass bearings. If using 'top-hat' bearings opening out the axle holes first with a 2mm drill in a pin vice as necessary. Secure the bearing with a drop of cement. There are two types of Romford bearing, 'Top-hat' and 'waisted'. The waisted bearing will drop straight into larger pin-point bearing holes without drilling, but I am less confident on these staying put. Wider spaced axleguards may need a shim which I fabricate from plastic card.
NormanQ4 Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 Hi GG22.No-one seems to have responded to the last paragraph of your post so I will tell you of my experience.I wrote a post some time ago with regard to poorly rotating wheels. The problem I found was that some Hornby 2mm diameter axles are 0.4mm longer than other Hornby 2.5mm diameter axles and bind in the bottom of the axle boxes.Check to see if you have any sideways free play with the axles and if not just file a very small amount (0.2mm) off each pointed end. It worked for me.
GreenGiraffe22 Posted February 4, 2016 Author Posted February 4, 2016 *Test post* I've tried replying to this thread twice, and both times my post hasn't appeared... *Okay now it seems to be working. Thanks for the advice guys! I'll try making either the holes deeper or the wheel ends shorter.It makes me wonder, has the issue been raised with Dapol? Something must be going wrong in the design / manufactoring process? It is a pain having to change all the wheels on my 15-20 or sdo Dapol wagons but I love the range of Southern wagons I have =]
96RAF Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 I have a Dapol kit built 4 wheel Shell oil tanker and I'm sure that came with both plastic and metal wheel sets.I could pull an axle set from that and vernier up the critical dims and compare them with the spare Hornby standard replacement metal wheels for coach sets and standard fit Pullman sets that I have if this would help anyone.
walkingthedog Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 I've checked the back to back, side to side, top to bottom, there is just something about them that isn't right. Locos are fine wagons ain't.
oldpottsline. Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 Well i have hundreds of Dapol wagons and have never suffered any problems at all, so to state they are all wrong is very misleading indead.
walkingthedog Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 Don't think anybody said they were all wrong.
oldpottsline. Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 The OP statement referred to all his Dapol wagons.
walkingthedog Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 Yes all his Dapol wagons. I've got quite a few and they're generally fine but if there is a rare derailment I can almost guarantee it's a Dapol wagon.
96RAF Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 OK here are the critical dims:All Hornby wheels are a catalogued notional 14.1mm Diam, Dapol kit wheels are not specified: X9096 4-hole Pullman - one insulated wheel - live axle to the other wheelAcross pin tips 25.65mmDiam over flange 16.12mmWheel Diam 14.10mmAxle Diam 1.99mm R8234 4-hole Wheel - both wheels insulated from axleAcross pin tips 25.67mmDiam over flange16.00mmWheel Diam 14.17mmAxle Diam 1.99mm R8218 Solid Disk Wheel - both wheels insulated from axleAcross pin tips 25.73mmDiam over flange15.84mmWheel Diam 13.84mmAxle Diam 1.99mm RP25 Dapol 3-hole Wheel as supplied with B-Tanker kit (and probably others) - both wheels insulated from axleAcross pin tips 25.55mmDiam over flange14.52mmWheel Diam 12.60mmAxle Diam 1.98mm Conclusions:Hornby replacement wheels are likely to be tight in a Dapol kit chassis (+0.1 to 0.2mm).Hornby replacement wheels are too large a diameter for Dapol wagon kits, may foul on bodywork and will affect riding height, which may also cause coupling problems.
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