How much can I control with 1amp/4amp eLink?

[garrettendi]

I've seen other forum posts, you can generally control 10 locos at once with a 4 amp transformer and the eLink,

 

But in my situation I want a small layout that I intend to run 3 locos at once WITH additional points controlled using Train-Tech/Traintronics point motors which would be controlled same as a loco control-wise.

 

As a rough "guess-timate" I'd say that when my layout is complete, I'd be controlling 3 locos and at least 5 of these points. Would I need a 4 amp transformer? Is that even enough for this?

[Yelrow]

Hornby on their in house layout, run happily on 1 amp transformer, but many of us have 4 amp. You certainly would not need anything bigger. I run 5 locos at once and have 15 points and TT. john

[garrettendi]

Great! That answers my question nicely. I assume that even if you control a points motor using the normal < > loco control buttons (as per Train-Tech motors) it makes no different as power is only really drawn on operation of the point?

[RDS]

There are many others on here who control at least that number of Loco's and points with a 4 Amp PSU but I personally found that my points would not operate consistently with the 4 Amp Hornby supply and that was due to it's voltage, not the amps.  I now use the 4 Amp supply to control the Loco's and a separate, ex Laptop (18v), supply for my points.  I don't know whether you can use a separate PSU with your Point decoders because I use ESU Decoders.

 

I would say,the best option really is to try it and see before attempting to add another PSU.

[garrettendi]

Thanks RDS, so in that scenario would I also need an addition eLink, 1 for locos and 1 for points, both with separate PSUs? Just checking I understood you correctly!

[Fozzy Bear]

On my old layout, I had 22 point motors, a turntable and could run 5 trains at once, all with just the standard elink 1 amp transformer. I don't think you will need a 4A supply.

[Fishmanoz]

The answer really is it depends.  It depends on whether you are running modern locos or older ones.  Modern locos use a maximum of around 250mA each, older use more.  If you are running modern locos, then 4-5 will be no problem.

 

You are pretty right in you second post about points.  They only draw current for a brief period when being thrown so have little continuous effect on running locos.  In the first instance, ignore them.  So you have RDS wrong about needing more for points.  He said very clearly, he needed a second supply for more Volts, not more current, to run solenoid motors using accessory decoders not containing CDUs.

 

My conclusion for you - 1 Amp should be more then adequate.  Try it to confirm, then worry about a larger supply later if it shows to be inadequate when you want to run more.

 

PS.  With a 4 Amp supply, you get 3 Amps to the track and can run more than 10 locos, if you can cope with controlling that many.

[Peter Ruifrok]

 And additionally: do not ever put more than 4 amps on your track. If you have a serious short circuit it could melt the wheels of your loc to the track.

[RDS]

... would I also need an addition eLink ...

No, you can only have one DCC controller.  I use Elite not e-link, so it came with the 4 Amp PSU.  My solution was only possible because my ESU decoders allow the use of a separate PSU.  

[96RAF]

You cannot have more than one controller feeding the same track 'bus'. But you can have one controller feeding the locos on track and another one looking after your DCC points but it has to be on a totally separate wiring loop (bus).

 

i run mine this way using an elite for locos and eLink for points.

[Nick_]

I ran 4 simultaneous locos and 4 Hornby Accessory decoders with 18 points from 1A with no problems.

I only moved to a 4A supply when I changed some points to electro-frog and added a frog juicer which then required the supply to be 1.7A minimum

[Fishmanoz]

And if you want to use electrofrogs, use ones with integrated or add-on frog switches and you won't need to buy a 4 Amp, or a juicer.  I'm not trying to suggest juicers don't work, just that there may be a diffent solution depending on your circumstances.

[Nick_]

Fishy, are there any electro frog points with integrated switches? Or ar you referring to point motors with integrated switches? I have some points for which I have to use surface mounted motors that don't have frog switches which is why I use a frog juicer. And very well it works too :-)

Nick

[Fishmanoz]

They go on the point motor Esther thsn the point.  There is a Peco set of point, point motor and switch. Chrissaf has posted on these with mounting instructions.  Then there is DCC Concepts ADS slow action series which are integrated, and the TT300 too if I remember rightly.

[Chrissaf]

Chrissaf has posted on these with mounting instructions.

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Although I have mentioned Peco PL10 point motors and their optional PL13 and PL15 switches. The post I think Fishy is referring to related to Gaugemaster SEEP PM1 motors that are solenoid based with an integrated frog switch.

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The PL13 and PM1 need very careful mm perfect alignment to get reliable switch operation. The PL15 switch has adjustable spring contacts and is more user friendly from an operation reliability point of view.

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These three switch types are designed for under-board point motor mounting, but could be modified for above board mounting, but then become unsightly and difficult to hide.

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The Hornby R8243 and Peco PL11 surface mount point motors do not have switch options, so where these are used the frog juicer solution is an excellent alternative. The 'Tam Valley' juicer is an excellent piece of kit.

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A lot of (but not all) the slow action point motor solutions include an integrated frog switch in the product.

[96RAF]

@Chris

Although there is no direct switch option for the small surface mounted solenoid motors you can modify a PL-13 switch by cutting off the mounting lugs and glueing it to the underside of a point and linking the tie bar to the switch with a Hornby track pin which is exactly the right interference fit with the switch, just make sure you don't push it in too far and tighten up the mechanism.

 

Photos here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/33012-pl13switcha/

and here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/33011-surface1a/

[Michael_A]

 And additionally: do not ever put more than 4 amps on your track. If you have a serious short circuit it could melt the wheels of your loc to the track.

 

Highly unlikely: 1. Even 4 amps is insufficeint power to do that (15v at 4 amps is only 60 watts) 2. The controler will trip out removing all power from the track in case of a short circuit

 

[poliss]

There are 5 amp systems designed for H0/00. I stress that these are the systems designed for H0/00. There may be other 5 amp systems designed for larger gauges that do not cut out when there's a short circuit.

What you should never use are the 8-10 amp power supplies used for larger gauges. On these higher amp systems, the controller doesn't recognise that there has been a short circuit until the bogies have melted.

[MelkshamFlyer]

Hi All - new to this forum, and not terribly experienced with railway modelling - just re-starting a retirement project with my wife after our first attempt was destroyed by fire in the loft following a lightning strike 18 months ago !

Anyway, we've gone for Hornby Railmaster with e-link and I'm pleasantly impressed thus far but am interested in the comments about power, since lack of power to control seems to be a problem sometimes particularly after an 'incident' !  I am wondering if the Power Booster (R8239) would actually make significant difference on a smallish layout - the info on the Hornby site is a little 'thin'.  I may be jumping the gun a bit since I haven't actually completely all the power bus hook-ups I probably need, but I would in interested in some more experienced advice on this matter.  I also am controlling from a Microsoft Surface Pro 3 computer, which does have a reasonable processor in it, but maybe not powerful enough ?

[Chrissaf]

Hornby causes a bit of confusion with their vague use of terminology. They call the R8239 a 'Power Booster'. In reality it is a DCC digital signal repeater which is something somewhat different. If you feel that your eLink needs a bit more power to run more than four locos simultaneously, then just replace the original eLink 1 amp power supply with the P9300 4 amp power supply. If you look at the product page (click red link) it clearly states that it is a Hornby recommended upgrade power supply for both the eLink and Select controllers.

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For the layout topology and environment that you outlined in your post, the use of a R8239 would be inappropriate.

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Re: I also am controlling from a Microsoft Surface Pro 3 computer, which does have a reasonable processor in it, but maybe not powerful enough ?

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PC Processor is not normally an issue. RailMaster was originally written for 32 bit Windows XP architecture, which is not strictly a 'power user' platform.

[Chrissaf]

PS - you also said in your original post.

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lack of power to control seems to be a problem sometimes particularly after an 'incident' !

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If by incident, you mean a 'short circuit' then this is normal behaviour. All controllers monitor track current and shut down if they detect a short. The process required to gain back control after the incident varies with controller brand and model.

[Nick_]

@MelkshamFlyer

Don't worry, Microsoft Surface Pro 3 computer has more than enough performace to run RailMaster.

[MelkshamFlyer]

@MelkshamFlyer

Don't worry, Microsoft Surface Pro 3 computer has more than enough performace to run RailMaster.

Thanks for that - I was sure it would be plenty, but I'm just a bit wary of comments I've seen elsewhere about the SP 3's poor USB output - I have the docking unit which gives more, but was definitely worse than the direct output - as Hornby say in their instructions.

 

[MelkshamFlyer]

PS - you also said in your original post.

.lack of power to control seems to be a problem sometimes particularly after an 'incident' !

.If by incident, you mean a 'short circuit' then this is normal behaviour. All controllers monitor track current and shut down if they detect a short. The process required to gain back control after the incident varies with controller brand and model.

Thanks Chrissaf - I neglected to mention I'm already using the 4amp PSU and incidentally I'm on Windows 10 (latest PRO 1511 upgrade), and the incidents I refer to are not necessarily short circuits because that doesn't always happen if a loco accidentally goes through a point it shouldn't - but sometimes if a loco stops or after a short, and I reset the control with the pop-up window's tick or cross. then the locos won't actually start again - there's power to the circuit, but the control communication is gone even if all is reported OK.  And it applies to all the locos (normally only 2 or 3), not just the 'culprit' - closing down and restarting the e-link and the RM software is all that cures it.  I've been using Windows for business for many years (since 3.0) and am well used to Windows crash and freeze problems, but this seems more than that and nothing to do with Windows.

I am waiting delivery of point motors and intend to control them through RM - not using the Hornby because a lot of the points are Peco, so Smartswitch seemed more appropriate, though I'm thinking of using the Hornby Accessory Decoder for signals etc

As I said in my original, maybe I'm jumping the gun and expecting too much before everything is battened down and bedded in !  I've found the comments on this forum very useful however - thanks all

 

[Yelrow]

Melksham, hi, its better for us to read, if you dont put your answer in the yellow box, mind you, many of us have. The main reason for my post was whether you can in fact use Smartswitch, through Railmaster. There are many accessory decoders available, i have hornby, and 2 other makes. Somebody far more technical than i will know about Smartswitch, but i thought i would flag it up, before you commit, just in case. john