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"Shortie" GWR coaches. Fact or fiction ?


Jimbo1707820979

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I have half a dozen or so of these Triang coaches, with the wheels replaced by fine-scale ones. On my small 7ft x 4ft layout I find a rake of  them more realistic- looking on 3rd Radius curves than my full-length coaches, as they do not stick out alarmingly when rounding the curves.   They are really quite a favourite with me although Purists would doubtless throw up their hands in disapproval.     My question is : were such coaches ACTUALLY used on the railways and, if so, where and when ? Or are they purely a creation from the halcyon Triang days ?

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The simple answer is "fiction" but that is rather harsh. The coaches are recognisable as GWR clerestory coaches designed by William Dean. The panelling and the big "G" shaped door handles are characteristically Great Western but the coaches are too short for any known prototype. It you hunt around on the internet you will find articles explaining how to “cut and shut” two bodies to make a correct length coach.


When they came out in the 1960s it was common for model railway coaches to be too short, probably precisely because they looked and worked better on train set curves. Triang were very forward looking when they made BR Mk1s the correct length. The Deans are probably no worse in this respect than the Railroad Gresleys that came out much later.


The bogies are, basically, wrong so don't look. There are replacements available from specialist suppliers but they are probably too good for the bodies.


For all that they are still rich in Great Western flavour and still find a place in the modern range.


Making compartment partitions so that a viewer cannot see along the length of the coach from the inside is an easy improvement.


Clerestory coaches lasted until in the 1950s in some roles. Hornby might find that a new version made to the correct length could appeal to a very wide range of modellers.


 

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Here is some more information on the Tri-ang Railways (etc.) GWR Coaches...

http://www.gwr.org.uk/protriang.html

 

As is pretty well known, the origins of these coaches was Tri-ang Railways, in 1961, to go with the then New R.354 "Lord of The Isles" 4-4-0 Dean Single....

So they WERE intended to be GWR coaches. Despite being fitted with the then "Standard" BR Bogies...

 

Over the years they were also produced as:-

LNER (Teak Finish) with an LMS 3F 0-6-0T in LNER Apple Green Livery (Yes, really!)

LMS (Maroon) Another Train Set.

"Red and Cream" (But NOT the brake) for the Tri-ang Hornby Railway Children Set, With a Brown GN&SR Jinty (Should have been a Pannier Tank, but the Hornby Model was not ready yet!)

Bright red (ALMOST carmine, or suitable for a later Breakdown Train!) used in a train set with another LMS 3f 0-6-0T in lined black numbered 2021.

In Black, and later Green, as an ED Engineers Dept Coach (Brakes only...).

 

I dare say there are others but my Ramsey's is not to hand (Dodgy memory used for the above! ;) )

 

Funnily enough, the later Hornby Long Clerestory Coaches have also been liveried as Midland Railway caoches, to go with the Midland Compound!

 

No Breakdown or ED liveries yet....Hornby are slipping! ;)

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 The old Tri-ang clerestories are ideal donors for other 'cut and shut' attempts. I have used the bodies to make former LB&SCR non-corridor coaches in a 2 coach push-pull set, with a new roof, new ends, (one of which includes driver's windows), and Fox bogies, and have a pile of them standing by to make a 3Sub EMU of LB&SCR origin using the same technique, perched on Hornby 62 foot SR EMU underframes.

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Some information about the Tri-ang Railways (etc.) Short Celestories...

www.gwr.org.uk/protriang.html

As is pretty well known, the origins of these coaches was Tri-ang Railways, in 1961, to go with the then New R.354 "Lord of The Isles" 4-4-0 Dean Single....

 

So they WERE intended to be GWR coaches.

 

Over the years they were also used as:-

LNER (Teak Finish) with an LMS 3F 0-6-0T in LNER Apple Green Livery, (Yes!)

 

LMS (Maroon) Another Train Set.

 

"Red and Cream" (But NOT the brake) for the Tri-ang Hornby Railway Children Set. With a Brown GN&SR Jinty. (It should have really been a Pannier Tank, but the Tri-ang Hornby Model wasn't ready then!)

 

A bright red (ALMOST carmine, or suitable for a later Breakdown Train!) used in a train set with another LMS 3f 0-6-0T in lined black numbered 2021.

 

In Black, and later Green, as an ED Engeneers Dept Coach (Brakes only...).

 

"Fictitious" BR Style Crimson & Cream with a "Fictitious" BR Blue B12 (Hornby Made In China. East Anglian Train Set). It looks lovely as a set! Even if it is so "Wrong". (The coaches are ALMOST a match for the Railway Children Set coach...

 

"Old Slow Coach" From the TTE Range. (Only the Brake...)

 

Funnily enough, the later Hornby Long Clerestory Coaches have also been liveried as Midland Railway coaches, to go with the Midland Compound!

 

No Breakdown or ED liveries yet....Hornby are slipping!  😉

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Many thanks, Lady and Gents, for you informative posts. I managed to track down the coach to the 1961 7th. Ed. of the Tri-ang catalog, price 9d. Makes fascinating reading.

Maybe these coaches will become "rare collectors items" if LC continues at his present rate of conversion ! 😉   At only 7.5 inches in length they are really quite nice. Go well with a battered Lord of the Isles I obtained very cheaply, but a good runner.

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The simple answer is "fiction" but that is rather harsh. The coaches are recognisable as GWR clerestory coaches designed by William Dean. The panelling and the big "G" shaped door handles are characteristically Great Western but the coaches are too short for any known prototype. It you hunt around on the internet you will find articles explaining how to “cut and shut” two bodies to make a correct length coach.

When they came out in the 1960s it was common for model railway coaches to be too short, probably precisely because they looked and worked better on train set curves. Triang were very forward looking when they made BR Mk1s the correct length. The Deans are probably no worse in this respect than the Railroad Gresleys that came out much later.

The bogies are, basically, wrong so don't look. There are replacements available from specialist suppliers but they are probably too good for the bodies.

For all that they are still rich in Great Western flavour and still find a place in the modern range.

Making compartment partitions so that a viewer cannot see along the length of the coach from the inside is an easy improvement.

Clerestory coaches lasted until in the 1950s in some roles. Hornby might find that a new version made to the correct length could appeal to a very wide range of modellers.

 

Under the post "What's your Christmas holiday project?" of December last year I posted a picture of an "Old Slow Coach" (which is basically the same as the triang model) see https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/12813/?p=2

 

I had fitted this model with an interior and replacement 7 foot Dean Bogies which I had produed using Shapeways 3D printing service. Since I run these coaches with the longer Hornby Corridore Clerestories I have tried to keep the level of detail simple so hope they're not too good for the triang bodyshell!

 

As these bogies are shorter than the original Mk1 bogies, The bogies have an offset the pivot (like hornbyRailroad Collett 57 footers) to ensure the wheels and couplings are in the correct position.

 

I had uploaded an 8' 6" version but think the 7 foot bogies look a lot better so I have never got round to printing the longer ones.

 

Regards

 

81F

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