Re-installing RM on new Windows 10 PC

[Pete172]

Hi all,

I just want to reality check with you experts before I start to mess things up !

I plan to download RM and install the evaluation version onto my new windows 10 PC then try to get everything working correctly in conjunction with my Elite..(drivers etc).

Once I have achieved this, I intend to deactivete RM on my old Vista PC, and use the same /original activation code to achieve full RM status on my new PC.

Will this method  work ?.... as it will allow me to use my full version on my old PC, while I get everything working correctly on the new PC.

From reading the new RM manual, I expect some glitches with Elite drivers with Win 10  etc..

Please let me know what you think..

Thanks,

Peter

[WilliamDavid]

This will indeed work. 

I have used my laptop and a tablet in evaluation mode, and swapped over many times.

I have had no issues with Windows10 having transferred from Windows 7.

[Pete172]

Thanks David, most reassuring, I will give it a try !

I also had a look at the files to copy across to the new PC , namely ( Rosource.mdb and *.pln and *prg files).

For the Resource.mdb I looked and did a search for this file , but I can only find a file that is called Resource, (not Resource.mdb) but if I right click on it, under properties it says File Type = MS Access Application(.mdb). So is this the correct file to copy ?.

Also, the *.pln and *.prg files are actually many files, not just 2. I have copied all these files (about 20 of them) to a pen drive, so I can copy to the new PC.

Should I wait until I have successfully reactivated RM in it's full state on the new PC, before I transfer these files ?

 

Many thanks,

Peter

[Fishmanoz]

Your file explorer setup mustn't be showing the file extensions on .mdb files, but it is the correct file you have.

 

Yes, you can copy them over straight away.  However, with the .pln and .prg files, you only need to copy the ones you have saved by your own names.  All of the files which come as part of RM will already be there in the new installation.

 

After you've installed the latest version from the link at the top of the forum on your new W10 machine in evaluation mode, you should go and check in the top locked thread here Railmaster: Setting Up and Getting Started that you have all of the correct lines with the correct values in your new .ini file.  Use the gear wheel to edit it to check as per the instructions there in the HRMS post at the bottom of the thread.

[Chrissaf]

TIP: Not showing file extensions is the default set up for Windows Explorer. If you want to change the Explorer config to show the file extensions, then open 'Windows Control Panel' then open the control panel 'Folder Options' then click the 'View' tab in the window that opens, then UNCHECK 'Hide extensions for known file types'.

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Note: there is no option within Windows Explorer itself to make this config change, it has to be done from within the 'Control Panel'.

[Fishmanoz]

One of the first things I do with a new Windows installation Chris, and show system files too.  I don't believe in Windows telling me what I can look at, I tell it.

 

Then I do remember many years ago one of the people in my office was doing some file tidying on his PC and getting rid of everything he didn't need.  Very laudable except one of the things he never used (he thought) was the DOS directory, so he deleted it.  Fortunately, he was able to tell the IT person faced with a very dead machine that he had done it.  Then copying it back wasn't too difficult.

 

So I understand protecting people from themselves, but why would anyone think not seeing file extensions is a good thing?

[Pete172]

Thanks all,

I see now that I must do some further reading apart from just within the RM manual, so I will do as you suggest & read the locked thread too........I say, this process has me worried before I even start !...what can possibly go wrong ...

I will let you know how I get on in a day or so.

 

Many thanks,

Peter

[Chrissaf]

I too, open up my view of everything Fishy.....i.e show system and hidden files etc. I did consider adding these to my TIP, but felt that was perhaps potentially too dangerous for some to know as per the example you gave. Thus I limited my TIP to only showing extensions. In my view (like you) I think showing the extensions is actually safer than hiding them. Somebody could potentially delete something important thinking it was just a Word document or something because they couldn't see the extension. They then find out after the event that it was a an .exe or .dll or some other important file type with the same name as their doc.

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PS - Pete172.....OK it wasn't a new install, it was an upgrade, but my RM installation upgrade from Win 8.1 to Win 10 went without a hitch. All I had to do was modify my .INI file to change Alternative comms from =0 to =1 and all was well. As I have an Elite, I left Check controller as =0

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As you have an Elite too....I would also suggest having Elite feedback =1 as well. See page 33 of the RM 1.64 manual for all the .INI file details and how to edit it using the inbuilt 'Cog' icon.

[Fishmanoz]

Pete, will be interesting to know if you have to modify your ini file because HRMS tells us it only needs to be modified by people who aren't doing new installations, like Chris wasn't.  You, as a new installer on your W10 machine should have a correct one set up for you as part of installation. Then, it may not be possible unless you have the Elite connected.

[96RAF]

The early Macs had the right idea. You even had to download an 'app' before you could get anywhere near the system files.

Totally user proof against fouling up the machine. Maybe Windows should have several levels of access to be set for each user account, apart from the basic admin rights.

[Yelrow]

Pete, if there is nothing wrong with your vista laptop, why not use it as a dedicated RM machine, Several of us do, very sucessfully. john

[Chrissaf]

@Fishy

Then, it may not be possible unless you have the Elite connected.

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Logic would dictate that you would have to have the driver loaded and your controller connected to the USB port before doing a fresh clean install of RailMaster. How else would the installer know what .INI setting options to create. It's been several years since I did a fresh clean install and I can't remember if the installer asks any questions regarding what controller is being used for the 'user' to manually answer.

[Pete172]

 "Logic would dictate that you would have to have the driver loaded and your controller connected to the USB port before doing a fresh clean install of RailMaster."

 

Hi,

I haven't started the install yet, but how can I have the driver loaded (as above) before I start the install ?

If I need to connect the Elite before I start, surely the instructions will state this ?

 

I will try the install today, but the instructions need to be intuitive / fool proof as I am lost now...!  (wish me luck)

Thanks again,

Peter

 

[Chrissaf]

With Windows 10, the driver used by your Elite will be located in Microsoft's driver repository. It is not a driver file provided by Hornby. When you plug your Elite into the new Win 10 PC USB port. Plug'n'Play should detect it and start the 'Found New Hardware' wizard. Choose the recommended 'Let Windows Search' option and the PC should install the driver supplied by Microsoft. This can all be done before running the RM_Setup.exe file.

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Although, Elite and eLink both use the same USB driver. The railmaster.ini settings are typically different for each controller type. If after the installation is complete, you experience any unusual behaviour relating to Elite communications then check what .INI settings the installer has created and compare them to the relevant posts in this forum.

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EDIT: Just had a look at the RM manual page 13. The fresh installation process does include a manual input option to tell RM what controller you have.

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PS - Unlike Windows Vista, with Windows 10 do remember to 'Right Click' the RM_Setup.exe file and choose 'Run as Administrator' this is an important required step to perform and is also documented in the manual.

[Pete172]

Thanks Chrissaf.

From what you suggest, I will connect Elite to Win 10 PC, allow it to find a driver, then I guess I should disconnect the Elite, download the RM Installation and run the start-up....

I'll give it a try.

Thanks,

Peter

[Fishmanoz]

No, leave the Elite there with driver and make a note of the port number reported by Device Manager.  Now download and install entering the port number in the installation when asked.  Now check if the ini file has all the right lines with all of the right values as Chris has told you, or not, and report back.

[Chrissaf]

Also make sure that the Com port number reported by Device Manager is 4 or less. If it is 5 or more then force it to a lower number before installing RM.

[Pete172]

 Ah, thanks Fishy, I'll try that

Peter...

[Pete172]

Evening all,

That's it all done and it is running fine !...so I'm well pleased now.

I set RM up for my Elite and it was running okay after changing the COM port to 3 (same as on my PC). I then checked the COM port settings on my PC to see what the Baud Rate was, it was set at  : Bit Per Seconds = 9600, (I assume this is the same as Baud Rate ??) so just to be sure, I went back into the PC to change it to : Bit Per Seconds =19,200 and this also seems to be fine.

I have not looked at the .INI file because it all seems to be working so far ( and I am not very familiar with the INI file). But I think I did change something in the .INI file on my old PC setup, think it something to do with allowing a longer recharge time for my points decoders ?

I also recon it was a good idea to connect my Elite to the PC first before installing RM. BTW, I kept the Elite running and connected to my PC all the time for the entire installation.

Anyway all seems to be fine, I will let you know how I get on with installing my old files (.pln etc) , and if I spot anything is not working properly.

 

Thanks for your wonderful help ..!

Peter...

[Chrissaf]

Peter,

Really pleased that it all went so smoothly for you. It proves that if you apply a methodical approach and take things slowly plus following recommended forum advice (not necessarily the same as following Hornby's documented installation instructions, most of which have not been significantly updated since Win 7), RM and Win 10 shouldn't be the problem that some seem to experience.

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I'm sure that Fishy (in Oz) will add his congratulations once he sees your post.

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Chris

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PS - I'm sure that Fishy would appreciate this too, but as you are a recent fresh RM installer on a new Win 10 platform, and just to satisfy my/our curiosity I/we would be really interested to know what the RM installer put in your railmaster.ini file (there is no need to change any settings, if all is working OK). You can either use the inbuilt cog feature or just open it with 'notepad' from within the railmaster program folder using Windows Explorer. Just looking at the contents of the file won't be in anyway harmful.

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Please let me/us know if the three entries below are present and what their values are (it will be invaluable intelligence, useful when advising others in the future):

Alternative comms =?

Check controller =?

Elite feedback =?

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PPS - Have you also activated the WIn 10 version OK too. If you have, then this proves your Firewall and AV settings are OK as well.

[Fishmanoz]

Yes, well done Pete.  And I agree with Chris about wanting to know what is in your ini file.  People who already had RM installed when they upgraded to W10 had problems with having to fix their ini files.  HRMS had assured us this wasn't the case for new users though, so as well as helping you, we'Ve been using you as a Guinea pig to check if they are right, and they seem to be.

 

You may well need to adjust your recharge time like you old installation too.  It will be easy to tell - whether your points set reliably on startup or not.  If not, lengthen it.

[Pete172]

Hi Chrissaf / Fishy,

Here is the list from my .INI file - from my new install on Windows 10. Does this lot look ok to you ???

Tipper speed=80Tipper timer=86.4Turntable speed=40Turntable timer=23.56Points timer=0.75Conveyor speed=65TCP start port=30Check serial ports=1Show upgrade button=1Allow deactivate=1Use default curves=1Polling time=5Confirm delete=1Classic buttons=0Show point indicators=1Uncoupler time=5Detection Timeout=5Button bar vertical=0Throttle timer=5Handheld plan area=1,1,135,135Program tick sound=1PING time=60Reset eLink on start=1Enable mouse=0Warn static IP=1Load Hornby Locos=1Load Jouef Locos=0Load Rivarossi Locos=0Load Electrotren Locos=0Load Arnold Locos=0Load Bassett-Lowke Locos=0Point button arrows=1Spoken confirmation=0Controllers on top=1Double pulse=0Alternative Comms=1Check controller=1Elite feedback=0Arnold RailMaster=0

 

PS. I still need to check if my RM is receiving & sending data....how  can I do this easily ? as I think/hope my firewall settings are ok.

Thanks,

Peter

[Fishmanoz]

As Chris mentioned Pete, if you can activate the new one it's fine.  If you can't, try turning off your AV and try to activate again.  If it now works, you know the AV is blocking your RM from communicating.

 

To fix, read the RM AV manual on your desktop.  If still a problem, go to the 3rd top locked thread and then to AC's excellent separate site and read what he has to say.  He's our expert on this stuff.

 

I'll let Chris comment on your ini.

[Chrissaf]

@Fishy

I'll let Chris comment on your ini.

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Peter, thanks for providing the .INI file content information update:

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The three entries of interest the installer has put in your .INI file are:

Alternative comms=1

Check controller=1

Elite feedback=0

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I find this interesting, because these are the entry values I would associate with an eLink controller. It is as if the installer has completely ignored that an Elite was present. Thus, my conclusion is that the installer is not as intelligent as HRMS inferred. It looks like it defaults to a common denominator configuration that is OK for both controller models. It does prove one thing that HRMS stated, and that is that a clean install will put in a workable .INI file configuration that just doing an upgrade of an existing installation does not.

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To put this into perspective, these entries are just as valid for an Elite on Win 10 as an eLink, but the Elite feedback=0 will result with no throttle feedback into RM when using Elite knobs and RM concurrently. If you want the see the RM slider throttle move when twiddling the Elite throttle control knob make Elite feedback=1.

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The Alternative comms=1 is correct for both Elite and eLink when on Windows 10.

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Check controller=1 is a specific requirement that is needed on Windows 10 with an eLink, but I personally consider a value =1 being optional when an Elite is the only controller present. In my own RM installation (Win 10 & Elite) I found Check controller=0 worked better for my particular installation. Once you have got your RM installation activated and fully operational and stable, then you could try changing Check controller=0 and see if that suits you better (when the value =1 then RM polls the controller about every 5 seconds or so to check status, this is needed for an eLink, but in my opinion not absolutely necessary for an Elite - I stress this is my personal choice as I don't like the distraction of seeing the green program/controller icon flashing in sync with the 5 second approx poll. This icon flashing is disabled when Check controller=0).

[Chrissaf]

PS - If you want to check your RailMaster Firewall settings then see this earlier post of mine containing 'How To' screen shots.