Class 395 won't play nice with RM

[96RAF]

Here's a little conundrum I need help with. It has been reported in to HRMS and they are 'working it' but no result so far.

 

The problem only affects this one loco, which is DCC converted with an R8249 in both ends according to HCC instructions. I have added a Cyclops light to the motor end by soldering a 3mm white led piggy back direct to the existing forward headlamps led.

 

The loco was set up in RM as R1139 (ex Blue Rapier train set) and it works fine (motor and lights) on the small and large throttles except as noted below.

 

Open a large throttle (first or second it makes no difference) in RM and set any speed, the loco responds. Now command stop and the large throttle indicates zero MPH and the slider hits bottom.

On the small throttle the speed indicates zero MPH but the slider sits just above shunt speed and the loco keeps running.

Select stop on the small throttle and it does.

 

OK so what have I tried so far (at request of HRMS and/or with advice from HCC).

 

All other locos with either R8249, R8245 or TTS decoders behave as expected and first and second large throttles and their associated small throttles work as expected, so I know its only the Blue Rapier.

 

Replace the R8249 in the Blue Rapier motor end with a known good R8249 - as tried and tested in the decoder rig and it does not exhibit the fault in RM.  Problem is still there, so I know its not the decoder.

 

Readdress the decoder from 395 to a short address. Problem is still there, so I know its not an addressing issue.

 

Take the dummy car off track. Problem is still there, so I know its not having 2 decoders on the same address affecting each other.

 

Reset the Elite - the last time I did this I lost my Prog output so I won't do it - instead I replace the Elite controller with a spare which has been reset. Problem is still there. So I know its not the Elite controller.

 

Swap Elite with eLink. Problem is still there. So I know its not an Elite or eLink problem

 

Remove motor end from track and problem is still there when I try to operate the loco as a phantom. So I know its not that loco or do I.

 

Delete the loco and reinstall again as R1139. Problem is still there so is it a dodgy set up in RM database for that particular loco

 

The only thing I haven't done is to unsolder the Cyclops led, but as the problem is still there even when that loco is off track I'm stumped.

 

Any ideas anyone....

 

[Yelrow]

RAF, how did you type all that without being logged out,  you must have cheated. john

[96RAF]

@John

J.I.C I copied it before I posted it and according to sod's law I didnt need it.

If I hadn't copied it then sure as eggs is eggs it would have gone awol.

Rob

[DeeJayEye]

RAF, how did you type all that without being logged out,  you must have cheated. john

Cut and paste from something like "notepad"?

[96RAF]

@DJI

Just copied to the standard clipboard after it was all typed in.

[Chrissaf]

If it is the RM database, why not delete the database version of the loco from your roster and build a new 395 loco entry manually from scratch, just as you would have to do if your were adding a non Hornby loco to RM.

[St1ngr4y]

Have you tried running the train under the control of a program ? .... or would that just complicate the issue even more  ☹️

 

Ray

[96RAF]

@Chris

I will try that after this...

@Ray

I will try that also.

 

...tomorrow as today has been a domestically induced train free day.

[Fishmanoz]

Why not try any other double ended train with lights from the database for a start, rather than typing in from scratch.  At least you'll find if it is confined to Blue Rapier.

 

On typing in long posts, as I have been want to do on the very rare occasion (stop chuckling you lot!), I find it is only a problem as the first post after logging on.  Subsequent posts can be as long as you like.  This has been reported to Adam under Forum Feedback.

[96RAF]

Another good idea Fishy.

i'm off now to have a try so will try to post back within the hour.

[96RAF]

State of play after my trials:

To start with I deleted my Class 395 from the loco list and loaded R2961 - another Class 395, using the same address.

 

I ran through this sequence of events (screen grab from later used to save me typing it all out). The first stop is from the large throttle when it doesn't work and the second stop is from the small throttle when it does work.

 

 

/media/tinymce_upload/800065c49664fabeca2aad7170f0abc1.PNG

 

The result was the same - when I command stop on the large throttle the loco continues to run at slow speed just above Shunt and the small throttle slider stays off the bottom stop.

 

 

This covers both Fishy's and Chris's suggestions to try another multi-car preload or load one by hand, so we can assume its not the database at fault.

 

Next as Ray suggests I recorded a short program as seen in the picture. The fault was there whilst I was recording the key presses, but upon playback the loco answered the commands and stopped at the first stop command and both sliders hit bottom, so I guess the problem is in the screen throttle somewhere.

I will report this back to RM as well.

[Mk 1]

Hello

 

I have found exactly the same problem. The following may be of interest.Un-tick scale speeds and every thing works correctly.

Run railmaster without being connected to Elink/Elite the controls still operate incorrectly.

Mark

[96RAF]

Interesting Mark I'll give the scale speed thing an untick. 

 

also explains why the problem was still there with my loco off track.

 

what loco are you seeing the problem on and have you reported it in to HRMS.

[96RAF]

Spot on Mark.

 

turned off scale speeds in setup and my problem disappears.

 

ive reported that back to HRMS so they should be able to fix it now.

[Mk 1]

Hello

 

Class 395 Sir Chris Hoy.

 

I haven't yet.

 

Mark

[96RAF]

Anybody out there got a dual decoder equipped anything that is not a Class 395, say 125, pendolino, etc, so we can see if its just the 395 family, although mine is Diy DCC and the others are factory DCC ready.

[AncientMariner]

 

Yup, I have a Pendolino which is dual decoder DIY fitted - everything works correctly AFAIKS.

 

AM

[Fishmanoz]

Have you checked large and small throttles with Scale Speed ticked then not ticked AM so you can try to duplicate the problem found then fixed?

[AncientMariner]

Since it worked correctly with Scale Speed checked, there didn't seem to be much point in trying to fix the problem by unchecking Scale Speed :-). I've now unchecked Scale Speed, and it still works.correclty. I'm unaable to reproduce the problem at all.

 

AM

[Mk 1]

A bit more info. If you drag the large throttle to zero, the small throttle goes to zero but when you release the curser the small throttle bounces back up a bit. 

 

Mark

[96RAF]

All this reported back to HRMS by email.

 

Their latest opinion is that:

"Re-entering the loco in the database cannot have made a difference as this is merely a database entry.  There are no commands in database entries which tell the software how to control the loco.  Every loco is controlled from the same system in RailMaster so there should be no different to the problem you are experiencing by re-entering the loco.  The only affect could be on the scale speed operation of the loco however this is not your fundamental issue."

I disagree as I think that this is the fundamental issue - scale speed on/off = problem here/gone..

Without sight of which fields the database holds and how this ties into scale speeds coding I cannot honestly opine, but it would seem logical that all the db does is hold a shunt and cruise speed value vs a loco ID, so when RM selects either button for any particular model it looks it up in an array and applies that value.

 

They then say:

"Scale speed operation only causes locos to run at a more realistic speed.  It invariably slows down the majoroty of locos as they run realistically fast out of the box." 

I presume UNrealistically fast out of the box.

 

From what I have reported and from what HRMS has responded with, I think the scale speed link to the Class 395 database holds the answer to the throttle kick problem.

 

Any other erstwhile opinions?