Basic Semaphore Signalling for layouts

[Baz48]

 Hi Every one, I am a bit confused about placing semaphore signals on my layout, and I would be grateful for some advice from the learned people on this site! -I have read the Peco pamphlet on signalling but this has not answered all my queries.  

Question 1/ If the outer track of a double loop circuit is bi-directional then signals should be placed on both sides of each set of points, I don't see anyway out of this??-

for example, if the train is travelling into the "tail" of the "Y" of the points , then the signal will show the direction , that is striaght on or to the left or right, but either way thte train can travel safely, and will not be derailed. However if the train is travelling in the opposite direction,that is into the "V" of the points then the signal is vital to indicate the position of the points as the train could be derailed if the points are set against it.  Is my summary above correct?- Can this be simplified by always running trains in ONE directionI

Question 2/  I also have an inner loop feeding a bypass loop ,station and also several goods sidings, so the points inside the outer loop will need signals on both sides of the points, is this correct?

Sorry if this is confusing but I have tried to explain as simply as I can, I would be grateful for any advice, I have 14 sets of points so therefore I want to keep the signals to a minimum for "safety" of the trains, I run on DCC and haven't purchased any DCC signals yet.

Many Thanks for reading this , Best Regards, Barry.

[Buz]

  Hi Baz 48

Diagram please this would be most helpfull.

A double track where one line was bidirectional running would be most unusual and also require wrong road signals, which to my knowledge are not made by the normal model signal manufactureres.

Signals don't indicate which way the points are set that is not there function.

If you just want to know which way points are set you would use a point indicator.

The signal indicates if the section of track ahead is clear and the train may proceed or not.

For a whole lot of safe working reasons and interlocking the signals and points are mechanicaly or electricaly interlocked this was developed throughout railway history and continues to day.

The placing of signals is dictated by the operating division of the railway, the signal sighting commitee

and the signals and tele-comunications engineer of the railway.

General rule left hand running signals on the left for railways using British signals practices.

The exeption that is the proof of this rule is when a signal is on the right for sighting reasons.

Signaling a layout is never simple and imposable to fully signal you would not be able to see the forrest for all the signals 🤐.

If you have a layout diagram or diagrams and can out line your general operations pattern or planed patterrn I will try and come up with a signal arangement that will work at least at the key points and junctions.

For the fancy electrics you need some one else to help on that, that is not my most knowledgable area.

Keep it as simple as you can with signals on a model railway it looks better

regards John

[Chrissaf]

I would agree with BUZ that to be prototypical in a small layout environment would result in a forest. My view to modelling is "what looks right is right even when it isn't" if that makes sense.

.

I would also concur that two way working would I assume be limited to single track working not twin or multitrack.

[aj2010]

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[Buz]

 Hi crissaf

Bidirectional working as described by Baz48 does happen, but is very unusual and uses a type of signal.

that as far as I am aware is not manufactured by normal model sources.

Bidirectional single line working is well just the normal way of doing things in that situation.

regards John

[Chrissaf]

Thanks for the clarification re: two way multi-line working. I take it from the tone and depth of your full previous reply that you are talking form actual practicable experience of working in the industry. No need for reply...a rhetorical question.

[poliss]

Signalling from a modelling perspective.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~rdmurg/clinic/sigclinic.htm

http://www.cravenmodels.com/SIGNALSHELP.htm

Bi-directional signalling.

http://www.railsigns.uk/info/tcb1/tcb1.html

[2e0dtoeric]

For bi-directional two track working, you merely have to watch the Dawlish Beach cameras for a while! The 'off-shore' line going to Teignmouth is one-directional, but there are a couple of trains per day that run wrong way on the 'inshore' Teign - Exmouth line. How they are physically signalled, I haven't worked out, as there are no wrong-way signals showing, and Live Train Tracker does not show the wrong way train either. Perhaps it is controlled by radio-phone?

Also - watch the railcam Crewe number 1 camera, and you will see dual track - both tracks used bi-directional onto the Wales line.

[Baz48]

Hi Every one ,A big thank you to all who replied, as always very informative and helpful,

Many Thanks , Barry.

[Tony57]

Many bi directional workings would be done by token systems be it a steel ball on a bag with a large hoop Mid Hants Line ( Watercress Line) or an electronic version as used on much of the scottish regional railways which are single tracked.