Writing cv's for a signal decoder

[andel1]

Hi all 

I'm looking for the idiots guide on how to write a cv for a signal decoder. 

I've installed four Dapo semaphore signals which in turn are attached to a C R signals DP8 adapter and that to a C R signals  SC1 decoder,  trouble is the manual says I have to write or change the cv's so could someone please explain what I do next in old fashioned English. I know that to write a cv I have to go into loco and click on the i  symbol but after the I'm lost. All my locomotives are code with my old controller  so never had to do this before. 

Regards 

Andrew 

[Chrissaf]

I do "idiots guides" quite well, so here is my stab at producing one here for you.

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First of all you didn't mention what controller, but from the line "I know that to write a cv I have to go into loco and click on the i  symbol but after that I'm lost" I deduce that you are probably using RailMaster and eLink.

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For anybody wanting to check out the SC1 product, click the link for the downloadable manual. The manual for the DP8 is not listed in the CR Signals site download section.

 

The CR Signals SC1 can be configured by writing CV's direct, but it also supports an automatic self learning mode. I recommend using this mode for configuring the SC1.

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Extract from the above manual page 21.

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Setting the address automatically.

It is possible to set the decoder address automatically using the PGM jumper. To set the address automatically use the following steps.

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1. Power off the SC1.
2. Fit the PGM jumper to pins 1 and 2 of J5.
3. Power on the SC1.
4. Operate the desired base address on your command station to both Normal and reverse.
5. Power off the SC1.
6. Remove the PGM jumper.
7. Power on the SC1.

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The address will now be set in CV1 and CV9 in output address mode with CV29 set to 192. The decoder will respond to contiguous addresses starting with the one that was operated. The jumper must be removed for normal operation.

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Step 4 in the list above needs to be done from your DCC Controller. But because you are using RailMaster, this gets a bit more complicated. Important to note that using the SC1 Automatic Configuration mode DOES NOT require you to go into any CV setting screen within RailMaster, whether that be 'Loco' or 'Accessory Decoder'.

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Here are the steps required in RailMaster to be performed BEFORE going through steps 1 to 7 above.

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a) Go into RailMaster Track Design (see page 77 of the RailMaster 1.64 user manual).

Open your existing track plan for editing. I assume that you already have a track plan set up to control your points etc. If you haven't then you will need to set one up first. Follow the RM manual from Page 77 onwards.

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b) In your track plan edit window, place the semaphore signal icon for your four semaphore signals onto the track plan in the positions you want them. See RM manual pages 79 and 80.

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c) Right click the the semaphore signal icons placed on your track plan and fill in the configuration box that appears.

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Note: according the the SC1 manual, the default configuration of the decoder is to support DCC Addresses 1 to 63. Addresses higher than 63 can be supported but require other CVs to be changed first. For simplicity sake I suggest going with the factory default and use addresses in the 1 to 63 range.

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Each SC1 decoder supports 8 DCC Addresses. The first address is termed the 'Base' address (see step 4 in the SC1 manual extract above). Thus if your SC1 is given the 'Base' address 1, then it will also be configured with DCC addresses 2 to 8 automatically. For simplicity sake, I am assuming that you will be using DCC addresses 1 to 4 for your four Dapol signals.

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Anyway back to the plot.

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You have stated four Dapol signals, so these will be assigned DCC addresses 1 to 4 and 5 to 8 will still be configured into the SC1 automatically for possible future use.

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d) So on your track plan, when you 'right click' the signal icon to enter the configurations, assign each of the four signals an address. Signal 1 = 1, signal 2 = 2, signal 3 = 3 and signal 4 = 4 (in the manual, the graphic on page 80 currently shows the number 15, where these 1 to 4 address will be entered). The graphic on page 80 is for a lights signal. The configuration box for a semaphore signal may be slightly different but the principal is the same.

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e) Save your track plan and restart RM so that your saved track plan is loaded into the main screen ready to go.

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f) Now run through the 7 steps listed at the top of this reply. When you get to step 4, use the signal icon for SIGNAL NUMBER 1 on your RM track plan mimic to operate the signal in BOTH positions. The Signal 1 address is the 'Base' Address. Do nothing else, do not click the icons for signals 2 to 4.

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g) Now go back to the original 7 steps and move on to step 5, 6 and 7.

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Your four signals should now be configured and clicking the signal icons for any of the four Dapol signals should operate them. If any of them move in the wrong direction compared to what is displayed on screen, then go back into the track plan DESIGN window and tinker with the settings when you right click the signal icon. You can set 'Start Up' positing there to.

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End of Guide.

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EDIT: Please, please, please. If you want to reply to my very long post. Please DO NOT click the 'Blue Arrow' quote button embedded at the bottom of the reply. If you do, the whole of my long post will be dupicated in a yellow text box. My reply is too long for this.

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Instead, just scroll down to the very bottom of the page and you will find a great big empty 'Reply' text box. Write your reply in that and click the Green 'Reply' button.

 

 

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Some idiots guide that Chris... excellent. Do you think I should put some of these things on site, with relevant permissions of course from said authors?

[Chrissaf]

There are so many variables, what product, what controller, OP's particular layout circumstances. OK a one size fits all approach can be done, i.e focusing on 'in principle' descriptions. For example, configuring 'self learning' decoders - in general principles to be observed.

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I remember about a year ago, there were many posts and threads devoted to a particular points decoder product (the brand and model escapes me just at present, but it was one of the first 'self learning' products in the market). Anyway, many people tried to configure it without success, then someone cracked the process and produced a 'step by step' guide. Certainly I agree that any specific product that gives Hornby RM users so much hassle is worthy of an idiots guide, if only because it took so much time and effort of individuals to unravel its mysteries.

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These days, these 'self learning' products are becoming more common place and cause less hassle. In principle, my 'idiots guide' above could be applied to any of them.

[andel1]

Thanks Chris. Knew you'dbe there to help,  will try tonight after work and will let you know 

Regards 

Andrew 

[Fishmanoz]

I think it was Cobalts using RM Chris.  And I think people were over complicating it.

 

With a guide, need to be aware some have switches for learn mode, others jumpers.

[Chrissaf]

I was thinking older threads than the Cobalts. I reminded myself what it was by reviewing my Forum Boilerplate doc. I was thinking of the ESU Switch Pilot. But you're right, the Cobalts did seem to be equally problematic for some at first.

[Chrissaf]

Update to my idiots guide.

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When I wrote the guide above. I went straight to the 'how to set an address' part of the SC1 manual. It is only now that I have had a quick scan of the other SC1 manual pages that I find my guide does not cover all the bases.

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For light based signals, it would appear that the SC1 uses one address per signal colour. Such that the 8 addresses could control 4 x two aspect signals or 2 x 4 aspect signals or 2 x 3 aspect signals with feathers. One address also being used for any signal feathers that might be deployed. It also goes on to say that with additional circuitry 8 x Dapol Semaphore signals can be controlled. Presumably it is the DP8 add-on board that is providing this 8 x Semaphore signal support. However, the SC1 manual does not specifically specify the DP8 add-on board by name.

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It also turns out (see page 22 of the SC1 manual) that the type of signal that the SC1 is being asked to control has to be set in CV38.

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On Page 22 of the SC1 manual it states that CV38 of the SC1 (factory default is zero to support four 2 aspect lamp based signals) needs to be set to 15 to support eight Dapol Semaphores with the adapter board (I presume the adapter board referred to is the DP8).

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Thus as well as setting the address which my idiots guide would have been good for. You will also need to set CV38 of the SC1 to 15 as well. This requirement brings you back to your original question.

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How do I write CV's to the SC1?

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This is pure guesswork. I have no idea if it will work or not.

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Connect the SC1 to your programming output on controller (I am assuming eLink). Go into 'loco' settings and click ' i ' the get the CV writing box. This was something your original posted question stated you knew how to do.

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Ignore all the text references that relate to loco functions, these are not important. It is also not necessary to fit the PGM jumper to the SC1 board.

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Scroll down to the entry for CV38 and type decimal 15 in the blank box.

You could probably also put decimal 1 in the box for CV1 as well, this will (if this process works) set your SC1 signal address to 1 to 8 at the same time. Eliminating the need to use the Automatic Self Learning process described in my original idiots guide.

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EDIT: It might also be prudent to choose a block of 8 addresses in the 1 to 63 range for your SC1 (CV1) that do not clash with any loco addresses that you're currently using.

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Click the write  'pencil' icon. Be patient, the writing process may take a couple of minutes.

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Close everything down and exit. Reconnect the CV1 to the track and to the DP8 and the signals and test.

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If this doesn't work, then it may be because the SC1 was connected to the programming output and needs to be configured on the main output. The 'programming' output is a low power output and possibly may not provide enough current to power the SC1 decoder whilst it is being configured. Configuring a CV 'on the main' provides additional power to the decoder, but requires a controller that specifically supports this feature. If you do have an eLink and not an Elite. Then AFAIK, 'on the main' CV configuration is not supported with the eLink and you are stuffed. Elite's do support 'on the main' CV configuration.

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Good luck with this tonight when you try it.

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PS - if you have an eLink and it looks like the 'programming' output power is not enough to power up the SC1 to accept its configuration. Then you could use a 'programming' booster made by PowerPax. There are other threads on this forum that state the PowerPax is compatible with the eLink.

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The link I have provided shows the Pax as being out of stock for that particular supplier (I have had one of these on 'back order' for about 6 weeks now with this supplier, so it should be back in stock soon).

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[andel1]

I did it Chris 

Followed your instructions and had the shock of my life when they started working so a big thank you 

Regards 

Andrew 

[Chrissaf]

Phew, really pleased to hear it. What a relief, both for you and for me.

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Just been looking at the post timings. Which procedure was the one that worked for you. The original automatic procedure of my original idiots guide OR the follow up CV writing on the 'programming' output alternative guide version?

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If it was the original guide, then I can only presume that the DP8 board allows the SC1 decoder to operate the 8 Dapol Semaphore signals on the default CV38 zero configuration setting.

[Chrissaf]

I've finally tracked down a copy on the original manufacturers web site of the DP8 user guide PDF. On page 2 under 'Configuration', it states: " The only configuration required is the set CV38 on the attached SC1 to 15 " so I presume this means that you adopted my follow up guide instructions to complete the successful configuration of the SC1 and Dapol Semaphore signals.

[Fishmanoz]

Chris, I discounted the Switchpilot as the one you were thinking about as it is programmed on the programming track, not learn mode.  It was certainly the most tortuous of discussions about how to program it, far longer than anything on Cobalt.

 

Switchpilot only came up when Hattons marketed it as an equivalent to the 8247 when it was unavailable.  Only in the loosest of senses could it be considered equivalent to an 8247 (it is an accessory decoder) and a curse on Hattons houses for ever suggesting it was.  It must be the most awkward piece of DCC kit ever produced, then into the bargain no internal CDU.  Learn mode Cobalts and other brands had been around well before the 8247 was out of supply. DCC Concepts ADS series were only just becoming available around that time and I think may have been one of the first learn mode solenoid decoders.  Others followed quickly.

[andel1]

I used your first guide Chris and I change nothing apart from allocating the port numbers to each signal also had to do it on the track settings not program,  once I set the jumper on the sc1 I clicked on to each one of the signals on my screen,  I then powered down,  reset the jumper,  powered back up and haypresto everything works 

Regards 

Andrew 

[Chrissaf]

Not quite the answer I was expecting Andrew, but hey ho it works....that's the main thing. 😎