Railmaster loc detection

[Peter Ruifrok]

I know that this has been the subject of much speculation, but does anyone know what the principle will be behind Railmaster's loc detection. From literature I understand that there are basically only two ways. Either a system "sees" if in any block current is being used. For this you need at least sections (one rail is electrically isolated in various places) or preferably blocks (two rails are isolated), so that the system can detect the use of electricity in the various sections or blocks. If electricity is used, then there is in that particular section either a loc or a wagon with lights. Most system use this principle, the disadvatage being that you need to cut the track. The other system uses an infra-red sender under the loc and a sensor between the tracks. It is know as Lissy (by Uhlenbrock) or Train Navigation (by Fleischmann), but both are the same. The sensor can be connected to the system via a LocoNet bus. The advantages are not only that you do not need to cut the track, but that the sensor sees which loc is where (and not only the presence of an otherwise anonymous loc).

My second question is of course: if Railmaster will never have loc detection, could I then use Lissy instead via the LocoNet bus? Does the eLink support a bus anyway?

[ModelerXYZ]

I think the Hornby system may use RF tags, but information on this subject is scarce, and I will believe that the system is coming only when it hits the shelves of my local model shop, as they have had the facility in RM for ages without the hardware (LDM56 they call it) being released. 

XYZ

[Fishmanoz]

There is a lot of info available in the public domain on LD, most of it is already in recent threads here.  Do a search on Loc Detection.

 

In summary, it isn't a block detection system and doesn't rely on current detection in blocks.  It consists of:

 

-  A loco detection module (LDM) connected to RM via USB cable.

-  sensors connected to the LDM and mounted between the tracks and which can allow determination of loco ID,cdirectiincandcspeed

-  bar coded ID tags to go under your locos and other rolling stock

 

As XYZ says, all commands you can program into sensors are already in RM and listed in th sticky thread 3rd down in this forum.  Tag ID is also added to your RM loco setups.

 

for more detail, look in the previous but somewhat long-winded threads.

[hosh]

The proposed RM system will use tags that also send loco IDs back to the system.

 

Block detection only has "anonamous" trains running around a layout if the writers of the system software have no clue about what they're doing. Which leads to the undeniable conclusion that if you propose a system that sends loco IDs back to the system then you haven't got a clue what you're doing and will be charging your customers for expensive hardware that is entirely unnecessary.

 

Hornby are about 16 years behind the times when it comes to integrating model trains with computers. Maybe when the present misleaders die off someone with a clue might actually hire someone with some talent and right this ship adrift.

[96RAF]

Elite uses Expressnet (currently to link to Select for walkabout purposes) so your Loconet stuff wont work directly with RM / Hornby kit without some adaption.

 

eLink doesn't have any type of  '...net' connections and RM is stuck with USB comms.

 

Rocrail manual has a good write up about Lissy detection and as Elite is supported by Rocrail you may get some pointers there.

[Nick_]

Hornby are about 16 years behind the times when it comes to integrating model trains with computers. Maybe when the present misleaders die off someone with a clue might actually hire someone with some talent and right this ship adrift.

So without requiring a understanding of software programming to write your own applications and a degree in hardware engineering to understand the hardware, which simple to use Windows based software/hardware system is 16 years ahead of RailMaster and supports loco detection or block detection or what ever they want to call it?  (This is not a dig, I genuinely curious)

[RB51]

I suspect your two caveats Nick will cause the result of your enquiry to be "0". 😀 R-

[Peter Ruifrok]

 To counter the zero 😀:

Here in the Netherlands: software is mainly "Koploper", freeware, very good but occasionally a bit cumbersome. Only in Dutch. No longer supported but now and then a new release appears. Or "iTrain", € 139, also very good and easy to understand. Also in English. Demo version downloadable for free which can be upgraded if you decide to purchase. As a result other, much more expensive commercial programs have no market share to speak of.

Hardware is mainly Dinamo: allows you to use DCC and DC at the same time on the same track. Plug & Play version € 300, includes 32 accessories and loc detection with 4 blocks with 4 sections each. More modules can be added (at extra costs). Or Digikeijs of which the cenral unit costs € 150. Module for 8 accessories (switches) costs € 32.50, module for loc detection (4/4 as above) € 50. Again, more modules can be added. Not P&P. Dinamo has been around for quite some time, no children diseases, Digikeijs is a more recent development. Both have excellent support.. Few run ESU EcoS but at much higher costs (€ 630).

[poliss]

Running a DC loco on DCC is never a good idea, even if the hardware and software support it, because DCC power can burn out the motor on a DC loco in seconds.

[Howbi]

Hi Peter...........your statement.....Hardware is mainly Dinamo: allows you to use DCC and DC at the same time on the same track.  is slightly misleading in that this system depends on the track being divided up into many Blocks so that whichever loco, DC or DCC, enters the block the required format will be applied, either DC current or DCC..........sounds very risky and complicated to me but, hey, if it works then good luck... 😀... HB

[hosh]

So without requiring a understanding of software programming to write your own applications and a degree in hardware engineering to understand the hardware, which simple to use Windows based software/hardware system is 16 years ahead of RailMaster and supports loco detection or block detection or what ever they want to call it?  (This is not a dig, I genuinely curious)

 

JMRI / Digitrax.

 

Any attempt to create an automated system that doesn't know where every train on the layout is at all times, as well as it's heading and state (moving or stationary), is worthless junk.

 

Hornby's "instructions writtin in the sensors" approach is good for a laugh and that's about it. It seems they may have worked that out and thus the lack of release. Clearly they are stumped on the whole issue though.

[96RAF]

@hosh

I wonder if that Eureka moment Hornby announced so, so long ago now was an 'oh dear its not going to work' moment.

 

it has gone awfully quiet on the LD front apart from RM inclusions.

[PJ_model_trains]

I think they are looking for a crystal ball for loco detection.

 

And a Eureka moment for the company financially.

[PJ_model_trains]

@hosh

Looking at your avatar it looks like you like something to get your teeth into. 🤐

 

Have you thought about loco detection? 😎

 

By the way there is no meat on them bones hosh 😉

[Peter Ruifrok]

 Howbiman (on Dinamo): you are of course entirely right. But the system does work, and it does so very reliably.