Locomotive Detection System that works with Elite

[karel_deman]

Is there a Locomotive Detection System that is out there that works with the Elite? And if so, where can I buy it/the components?

 

[RB51]

You could check out CTI Electronics for the components and, if you don't fancy writing scripts then Train Controller will do that for you. WALLET WARNING: it's not cheap.

 

This is a combination I am starting to use so I know that it all works together. I have no affiliation with either company. There are no doubt other suppliers.

 

R-

[RB51]

Just to be clear - there is AFAIK no system that will connect directly to the Elite for the purpose of Locomotive Detection. Hornby's own system is, in theory, in production. R-

[Chrissaf]

Even in theory, I can not conceive of any loco detection system that would not need some form of PC control at its heart. The physical controllers (without being attached to a PC) do not have enough intelligence. Of course, some manufacturer in the future might develop a completely new non PC based controller that has it all built in.

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Hornby's own planned LD system is built around RailMaster PC control. Thus it would only be compatible with Hornby's Elite via RailMaster.

[RB51]

There are several components.

1.  A PC

2. Some loco/system controlling software (such as Train Controller, Rocrail, CTI or JRMI)

3. A controller (to turn software commands into DCC instructions - such as Elite)

4. A sensor (usually many)

5. A system for recieving the sensor feedback and transmitting it to the loco/system controlling software.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/42e3fb25c9509783c28a88388d35b809.JPG

All these components need to be compatible with each other (and there are many combinations) meaning that condiserable research is required before embarking on the loco detection course. The advantage of the Hornby system will be (let's be positive) that the compatiblity issues have been organised for you and the price is very keen indeed (previously published data accepted).

[Yelrow]

ROG, Your optimism is to be congratulated, as is your wishful thinking. You really think that previously published price, will be honoured in 2020. john

[RB51]

@ John

 

Not optimism or wishful thinking, just stating the basis for my comments.

 

R-

[Chrissaf]

Nice drawing Roger.

[karel_deman]

There are several components.

1.  A PC

2. Some loco/system controlling software (such as Train Controller, Rocrail, CTI or JRMI)

3. A controller (to turn software commands into DCC instructions - such as Elite)

4. A sensor (usually many)

5. A system for recieving the sensor feedback and transmitting it to the loco/system controlling software.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/42e3fb25c9509783c28a88388d35b809.JPG

All these components need to be compatible with each other (and there are many combinations) meaning that condiserable research is required before embarking on the loco detection course. The advantage of the Hornby system will be (let's be positive) that the compatiblity issues have been organised for you and the price is very keen indeed (previously published data accepted).

Many thanks - the diagram is what I had in mind. Obviously I also share the comments on requiring a PC+software - I thought that was a given :-).

I am obviously looking to try out some combinations (and not wait till Hornby get their act together). I'd be eager to exactly know what components to get - depicted in the diagram - between the track and the software. You mentioned CTI before, checked our their website, and it looks promising, but would be very keen to learn from what you've done as to not make unneccesary mistakes...

Karel

[Fishmanoz]

Train Controller also appears to be a lot more basic than the more advanced features already in RM without LD, which will take it to another level if it ever happens.

[RB51]

That depends on which level of Train Controller you get Fishy. There are three. R-

[RB51]

I'm glad it was helpful. The CTI kit requires you to write scripts to operate the engines and react to sensor feedback etc. I decided I was too long in the tooth to learn how to write these scripts so have started to explore the Train Controller route as this creates the instructions. or "scripts" for you. If you are OK with writing what is in essence control code (you will have seen examples in the CTI manual - which is a free download) then this sounds ideal. This is a very big subject my friend and the biggest mistake you could make is not taking the time now to research it as fully as you can. For instance, I got the CTI starter pack - sounded alright, but I didn't realise that to run CTI kit with TC you need a different sort of connector between the PC and their components, not the one in the starter kit. ☹️ Not a huge problem - the main issue is waiting, they are in the USA so it takes a while to get to you. There is a CTI forum available (link from their website) where you can get an idea of the some of the issues and ask your own questions. R-

[Chrissaf]

Roger, to the best of your knowledge. Is this the same kit that forum user Phul007 uses for his extensive LD system. He seems to have automated everything according to his posts in the 'Let's see your layouts' thread.

[RB51]

Yes it is Chris, the difference being he has an IT background and is a whiz at writing the code. What he has done with his layout is very impressive I think. R-

[karel_deman]

That depends on which level of Train Controller you get Fishy. There are three. R-

Roger,

Is there a way I can contact you offline (via email) to discuss in more detail what components you exactly use and how? Keen to get going myself with this...

 

thanks in advance,

Karel

 

Admin edit: Please don't share your email address on the Forum.

[Chrissaf]

Karel, as you can see, admin have deleted your mail address. It is possible that Roger saw it before it got deleted. For reference, in the absence of a 'private messaging' system. Any two parties that want to share e-mail addresses can be arranged via admin. Just send a request to forum@hornby.com asking that your e-mail be passed on to the other party, quoting their online user name to identify them. That way, if the other party doesn't want to be contacted directly they can decline. Then only Admin in the middle will be privy to any and all private mail addresses.

[KrazyKris]

Hi

I've had a working DCC system using Hornby Elink system with RM and a few older trains that I've put decoders into. I moved house last year and had to disassemble my whole layout and It's only now getting back togther again.

I've always wanted to have Locotive detection as this really would make the system useable and I see that the latest version of the RM app now has a detection tab available. So what do I need to set this up ? are there Hornby products now available ?

 

Thanks in advance

[96RAF]

What you need is the LD hardware which remains on everyones wishlist, as Hornby has not yet put it on the market.

The LD tab in RM is just the software side of the system in preparation for when and if we ever see the hardware.

[Chrissaf]

RailMaster (RM) is wholly developed by a third party software house external to Hornby. The software house that developed RM were Invicto Systems but go under the name HRMS (Hornby RailMaster Support) on this forum

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EDIT: The Invicto Systems company name no longer exists and disappeared off the WWW in early 2018.

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The 'Loco Detection' tab you have only just noticed has been there in the RM application since at least 2013 to my knowledge, and probably since the original software release. HRMS use some of the 'Loco Detection' hardware to perform locomotive profiling when setting up the Hornby locomotives in the RM loco database.

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At this moment in time, 'Loco Detection' hardware that can use the 'Loco Detection' tab in the RM software has not yet been released by Hornby as a commercial product. It has been an expectation for several years now, but continues to be a product release that is always over the horizon and gets no closer to being made available to the public.

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As an aside, if you look in the Controller A pull down controller selection box. You will find the Hornby Select controller listed there. Again, this was included by HRMS at the early RM product development stage, but Hornby have not yet launched the Select hardware that will allow a Select to connect to a RailMaster PC. Hornby very nearly released the necessary Select hardware earlier this year, but pulled the plug on it about a month before its release date (it is believed due to lack of interest from the retailers and dealers and lack of pre-orders). I mention this because it demonstrates that things do appear in the RM software, for which there is no current hardware support to implement.

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So for the time being at least, I suggest that you forget that you saw the 'Loco Detection' tab in RailMaster. It will be completely useless to you for the foreseeable future. It is completely proprietary to Hornby and will not be compatible with any other LD hardware currently in the market.

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EDIT: Rob posted whilst I was still typing.

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[ColinB]

Is this the people http://www.invictait.com/ it seems a funny firm to use for this sort of software. So how do you detect the train? I would be really interested to know how you do it so I can look into writing some software.

[96RAF]

There is a mound of LD stuff in the forum Colin, from prices of the modules 4+ years ago to all the associated commands to speculation of the IR or not sensors, even a lottery of when we may see the system in the shops.

 

If you ever find out how it works please let the rest of us know.

[Chrissaf]

Is this the people http://www.invictait.com/

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No Colin it is not.

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You won't find a current website for Invicto Systems. There used to be one [www.invicto-systems.com], but it has now been discontinued on the web and first went missing in early 2018. Invicto Systems used to specialise in producing 'Point of Sale' till software, but I believe that part of their business is now defunct. HRMS (Invicto Systems as was) is and always has been a very small organisation. More akin to a 'one man band'. If you want to know more about the history of RM software, research "Richard Prokop". See link below as a starting point.

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https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/the-train-that-always-runs-on-time-1-5432008

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PS - An Invicto Systems Ltd software copyright notice used to appear at the bottom of the 'Help Screen' in RailMaster software, but was removed from that screen in a RailMaster version release prior to version 1.69 [i can't remember exactly which one]. This was about the same time as the Invicto website disappeared from the WWW.

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There was actually a typo in my earlier reply (now corrected in an edit).....it was Invicto Systems not Invicta Systems as stated previously.

 

[KrazyKris]

What you need is the LD hardware which remains on everyones wishlist, as Hornby has not yet put it on the market.

The LD tab in RM is just the software side of the system in preparation for when and if we ever see the hardware.

Ok thanks for that , so what you're saying is that if I want a loco detection system then I'll have to scrap the RM software and replace it with one that actually does support loco detection. 

So is there a software solution that works with e-link and also works with a loc detection solution I.e a replacement for RM ? 

[96RAF]

You cannot use eLink with any other software.

 

You can use S88 detection kit with Elite. See Elite section of Rocrail forum.

 

It is possible that some detection kit may eventually work with RM but that would be down to trial and error and some programming knowledge, noting however that RM licence forbids back-engineering.