Tornado & points.

[late starter]

Hello, all,

I recently purchased a Tornado (Hornby) Runs ok on a standard oval, but introduce it to points &

it just generally does not like them! Moderate speeds, reversing v slowly, either the loco de rails, or the tender does. Other pacifics , ie w country, m navy, princess coronation & Evening star, no problems. Has anyone else experienced the same?

[Chrissaf]

The words 'Tornado' and 'Derailment' seem to come up together with alarming regularity on this forum.

.

To see some of the many previous posts, I would try typing "Tornado" into the 'search forums' box. I got quite a few pages returned when I did it just now. I didn't delve into the post contents to check for relevance though.

[Yelrow]

Hi, i have 2 of these, both DCC, one with sound. Both run perfectly over points, but chris is right, it has come up before. My advice, take it/ send it   back to  seller/ retailer for replacement. john

[GWR LNER fan 4472]

  I've experienced the same. I just don't run it over points unless I have to! Also, most of my tender engines derail when boarding the turntable, I suppose this could be that it is only accesible via a radius 3 (I think) curve and that could be effecting on the entering angle.

P.s Evening Star isn't a pacific. 😉

[Yelrow]

The run in to the Turntable, i have found, needs to be straight, else it drops oe, entering, or leaving. john

[96RAF]

The entry to my TT is a curve and it is a derail magnet for most loco types, going on or off.

 

not really much i can do about as i am strapped for space there.

[Yelrow]

Time you have picked it up and re railed it, tis just as quick to revolve it. john

[JMan]

I too am new to model railways and I also have the same problem with my BR Peppercorn Class 'Bon Accord' in my Majestic set, a 4-6-2 locomotive. I noticed that the front 4 wheels tend to bounce around and I feel this leads to the derailment.  I have thought of two cures but not sure if either are possible. Remove these wheels, the train seems to run well in reverse so does it need these wheels? Somehow spring load the wheels to keep them pushed down on the track. I don’t have this problem with the BR Class 47 Co-Co Diesel.

[Yelrow]

JMan, removing the wheels, is a bit drastic, and not necessary. Have you run this loco in. At least 30 mins in each direction. I have the same set, and another TTS tornado, as well. I have not had any such probs. If you are getting derailments, have you checked all joiners/ points are tight. My bon accord does bounce a little on points, but i ran them both in on an oval of track, before setting them  point challenges. john

[poliss]

Tornado Front Bogie Modification

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8B5HZZTuUo

[JMan]

@ yelrow, I agree removing the wheels is drastic and would make the train look very odd. A desperate measure to not having to go pick the loco up every five minutes. I have not run the train ‘in’ in reverse but did in the forward direction. The derailment is only at one set of points and at a higher speed, no problem at lower speeds. I will run the loco in reverse.

@ poliss, a very helpful video, my bon accord does not have springs however it would seem, from the video, they don’t help. Fitting some washers may be the go. I will also check the back to back measurement.

Thanks for the advice.

[96RAF]

@polis

shame most of that video was carried out off screen (on my pc) so I was justwatching his workbench most of the time and what was on screen was shaky and out of focus. Good idea though, must try it on my Mallard.

[poliss]

All the info was there though RAF. Get three washers, replace spring. Job done. 😆

[JMan]

@ poliss

The back to back measurement on my front bogie is 14.3mm and as try as I may I cant get it any smaller. To get a measurement of less than 14mm I feel I would have to shorten the axle. Any thoughts on that?

[Fishmanoz]

There's your problem then JMan but you need to increase it, not decrease it, to 14.5mm or a fraction under.

[NormanQ4]

There's your problem then JMan but you need to increase it, not decrease it, to 14.5mm or a fraction under.

I know it's generally accepted that 14.5mm is the ideal but he's just quoting the sizes given in poliss video link which says 13.7 -13.8mm and definately no more than 14.

Isn't 14.3 just a fraction under 14.5 or is it only 14.4 that qualifies?

[JMan]

NormanQ4, you beat me to it, I was going to say something along the same lines. Also that DOGA Intermediate standard B2B states14.4mm +/- 0.05mm. http://www.doubleogauge.com/standards/commercialwheels.htm

I will open them up to ~ 14.5 and see what happens.

I also tried three washers under the bogie, to many, two worked better. I also spent time running in the locos.

[sparrow hawk]

It could be the points are faulty. I had an issue, that certain loccos derailed on my hornby points.

The bogie would ride over the insulated v of the point. I  filed a bit of the plastic at this point  and all was ok.

Check also that the point and the track to it are level ,as this can also cause the front bogie to ride over.

hope this helps as well

[walkingthedog]

Buy Peco points. 

[sparrow hawk]

I would in the future,the points came with a set.

I have since seen feed back that Peco ,are better but not had the need to change mine over.

[JMan]

You would have to plan your layout for Peco points as they are a different size, however I tend to agree as I don't think the quality of the Hornby points is up to much. I have only been working on my layout for 5 monts and the blades on two of mu points have come loose. I am also disapointed that a company that has been making trains for many decades now have not found a way to ensure the correct back to back spacing of the wheels on all their locos etc.

[JMan]

My mistake, Peco ST 240 & 241 will replace R8072 & 8073.

[walkingthedog]

Peco Set Track points are identical to Hornby. It's the Streamline versions that aren't.  

[Wobblinwheel]

Here in the USA, Tornadoes don't like MOBILE HOMES either....,.

[late starter]

Thanks guys,

I do take the point that E STAR isnt a pacific, i just added it to demonstrate the range of other types that manage points ok. Tornado runs staight through points fairly well, but does de rail if run too fast. But, when changing direction, its quite another matter.

I had the same problem with a Lord Nelson class, because of the double tender bogey arrangement, & finished up selling it! Someone, somewhere says that Tornado, Scotsman & Cock Of The North are built to a price, & may be thats the answer!