TTS Tornado

[WilliamDavid]

I have the Tornado TTS loco, and must admit it is not my favourite model.

I don't care to much for the blue livery.

Its scale speed on Railmaster is totally wrong.

Its starting is very jerky and grinding.

I have a lovely City of Liverpool Duchess, beautifully weathered by Grimy Times.

The question is,  if I transferred the sound chip to to Duchess, how authentic would it be?

All this talk of numbers of cylinders, chuffs per whotsit, etc is beyond my knowledge.

For similar reasons I have already transferred the chip from the TTS Flying Scotsman A1 to the Minoru A3, and am quite happy with the sound. Not too disimilar from the Howes chip I have in my Brown Jack A3, although not the same quality.

[96RAF]

Tornado TTS sounds are genuine Tornado recordings - that is a fact. I am aquanted with the sound recordist.

 

Google the various loco types and look for the number of cylinders. I did this so I could best match the sound decoders I have to the nearest like loco type.

 

The number of steam cylinders affects the active sounds much as the number of cylinders in a car engine does. Even i can tell a 4 cylinder purr from a V8 rumble. A 3 cylinder loco has a distinctive beat to it quite different from a 2 or a 4 cylinder loco. 

 

Someone with a better ear than me could probably tell if all TTS steam cylinder noise is the same basic recording or if some are different.

[Yelrow]

I have the same tornado TTS. It runs perfectly, stops/ starts as it should, and sound is fine. Moving its chip would  not help its running. Why not spend a little time sorting it. john

[mjb1961]

Williamdavid ,,Hi ,first of all have you tried changing the agorythm to agorythm 2 as set out in the instruction leaflet ,also running in 128 steps is so much better for the jerky start/stop/slow running ,I have 5 TTS locos including the tornado and have changed all of them and although not perfect a lot more acceptable ,,,also ,,,when you put the flying Scotsman TTS chip into your A3 was the jerky running still there ,please let us know ,,thanks Martin 

[WilliamDavid]

Thanks for your replies.

I put the TTS chip into the City of Liverpool, and to my ears it sounds quite good.

I used the City of Liverpool programme on Railmaster, and manually added the sounds. It runs rather well, and is nearer to the scale speeds than when fitted into the Tornado.

I fitted the standard Hornby chip into the Tornado, and used the Railmaster programme for the latest non TTS Tornado. Runs smoothly, and nearer to scale speed.

 Because of the issues, I hardly used the Tornado, so this is the best solution.

I am still puzzled why it seems to be only me with a troublesome Tornado. Maybe it is just faulty.

[WilliamDavid]

No, faulty. It should run well from the box. That's what we pay for. I am not a newby to this, and various comments on this and other forums claim that various TTS locos have rubbish motors.

[96RAF]

Ditto magfan

i was still scratching my head about how swapping a pair of decoders between locos could fix so many unrelated things.

the only common thing to the fault is RMs pre-programming.

[Yelrow]

William David,, hi i am on 4 other forums, and cannot recall any posts about TTS locos having faulty motors. Mine, certainly dont, mind you, they were properly run in, and set up. I totally fail to see how swapping a decoder, can make a faulty motor, suddenly improve, cos there is no connection.  I can onl y think the increased running, finally, ran it in It does say in instructions to run in for best performance. john

[Fishmanoz]

You don't have to go to other forums to find reports of fsiulty TTS motors replaced under warranty.  It goes back a while but there are such reports here.

[WilliamDavid]

The TTS decoder is set to 15 on acceleration, and 5 on the standard decoder. This means the juddery slow start is exaggerated on the TTS. It may be significant that the juddery start seems to be isolated to the cheaper TTS locos.

My locos. 

Flying Scotsman and Tornado - poor.

DoG and King - fine.

[WilliamDavid]

There seems to be a hint of cover up on this issue.

[dynax]

There seems to be a hint of cover up on this issue.

Do you think MI5 are behind it then, you had better check for bugs and hidden cameras, they're onto you now,  😆

[WilliamDavid]

Some people do seem to be quick to defend Hornby.

[Nick_]

I have a non-TTS railroad Tornado and I'm guessing TTS and non-TTS are identical and have identical motors, just that the TTS version comes with a TTS decoder. My Tornado has a 3 pole motor. When I used it with a basic hornby R8249 decoder it was somewhat jerky on startup. I then switched to a TCS decoder which has the option to set a different BEMF algorith for 3 pole motors (CV 182 = 1). It now runs smoothly even with CV3=30 (Acceleration) and CV4=20 (Deceleration). It was also noticable that has got better over time (i.e. run-in). If the TTS decoder has options to change things it is worth playing with them. The default settings are not necessarily the best settings...

[Yelrow]

Hi, i have both, the Bon ACCORD, and TTS version. Both have been fine. Am convinced its to do with running in as per instructions. These locos, may be bench tested in China, but  i dont think they would do more than that. john

[WilliamDavid]

All my locos have a 30 minutes run in in either direction, whether they need in or not.

My Flying Scotsman and Tornado have had hours of running time.

These, as supplied, should be optimally set to the boffins at Hornbys instructions. We should not have to fiddle unless we have some particular need.

I just get the feeling that some members of this forum do not believe my account of the performance of locos in my possession. I have 42 dcc locos, and it is only these two that stuttered on start off. (The DoG is marginal)

[mjb1961]

All my locos have a 30 minutes run in in either direction, whether they need in or not.

My Flying Scotsman and Tornado have had hours of running time.

These, as supplied, should be optimally set to the boffins at Hornbys instructions. We should not have to fiddle unless we have some particular need.

I just get the feeling that some members of this forum do not believe my account of the performance of locos in my possession. I have 42 dcc locos, and it is only these two that stuttered on start off. (The DoG is marginal)

Hi,WillianDavid ,,,I believe you because I have 5 TTS locos ,Flying Scotsman ,Gadwall,Tornado,Cock o the north and Duke of Gloucester and all of them stutter on start off ,slow running and stopping but in my previous post on this topic I mentioned changing the agorythm to agorythm 2 also run them in 128 steps ,not 28 or 14 ,if you haven't done so already change to agorythm 2 and try in 128 steps ,you won't need to adjust settings for acceleration / deceleration as 128 steps will give you the more realistic pulling away and slowing down to stop speeds ,I find by doing this it is more acceptable ,more pleasing although not perfect i admit and I think Hornby should have got it right from the beginning . I personally think it is the decoders ,they are cheap and made with cheap components but others would disagree ,,,,,,Martin

[Yelrow]

MJB, would not running them on DC, prove if it was decoders or motors. john

[WilliamDavid]

Thanks for the replies. It is not just me going mad.

I am happy with things as they are. Tornado smooth, running to scale speeds and silent. City of Liverpool smooth and chuffing. Minoru smooth and chuffing. Flying Sotsman in the spares bin.

I just tried the TTS Flying Scotsman with the standard Hornby decoder and it runs smoothly until it derails.

I've tried all sorts with the front bogey to no avail. I am going to scrap it. Glad it wasn't expensive, and that the TTS sounds fine in my A3 Minoru.Not a total loss.

[mjb1961]

Thanks for the replies. It is not just me going mad.

I am happy with things as they are. Tornado smooth, running to scale speeds and silent. City of Liverpool smooth and chuffing. Minoru smooth and chuffing. Flying Sotsman in the spares bin.

I just tried the TTS Flying Scotsman with the standard Hornby decoder and it runs smoothly until it derails.

I've tried all sorts with the front bogey to no avail. I am going to scrap it. Glad it wasn't expensive, and that the TTS sounds fine in my A3 Minoru.Not a total loss.

Hi ,,,don't scrap it ,does it derail in the same place ? 

,,,,,Is your track laid properly ,flat and in line with each other ?

,,,,Does it only derail in forward running and in one direction ,have you turned the loco around and run it in forward running in the oposite direction ,does it derail still ? 

I had the same problem with my A4 gadwall ,its front pony truck derailed in the same place ,on a curve ,it turned out to be the join of the rails ,one of them protruded the other ,I gave it a file down and that cured it ,I wouldn't scrap it ,you could sell it on eBay without the TTS decoder ,,,,,,,,

[mjb1961]

MJB, would not running them on DC, prove if it was decoders or motors. john

Probably,but people have replaced the TTS decoders with a standard r8249,as a test , and the locos run great including Williamdavid,,,,,,

[96RAF]

It is clearly stated in the 'book' that TTS decoders have to have certain cv values left as set at default for the sound to work correctly, i.e. 128 speed steps and accel/decell at 15. Also altering the start delay from 25 will affect the start sound sequence.

[WilliamDavid]

I set the Tornado  with the  R8249 decoder to have an acceleration of 15. Its start off, while not juddery, is noisy with an grinding sound. Much better set to 5.

I am sure the motor is the problem.

As for scrapping the Flying Scotsman, the front pony truck is kaput. Is there  a spare available?

[mjb1961]

I set the Tornado  with the  R8249 decoder to have an acceleration of 15. Its start off, while not juddery, is noisy with an grinding sound. Much better set to 5.

I am sure the motor is the problem.

As for scrapping the Flying Scotsman, the front pony truck is kaput. Is there  a spare available?

You'll get a pony truck for a flying Scotsman from eBay ,,,,,

[kevltan]

Maybe its about time Hornby did a first and started fitting super smooth brushless motors and Dcc brushless controllers similar to what they use in the radio control world and a well proven technology now. No brushes, no friction, no carbon deposits, no wear, super smooth powerful and efficient starting and running. Only problem I see is the motors would last the lifetime of the loco which would not be good business for Hornby as regards spares!