PRE-ORDERS - Something to be aware of

[PJ_model_trains]

I have been a bit down latley, now so much with the slow rebuilding of my new layout, but with another fall recently.

 

I was also disappointed when Hornby cut their 2016 catalogue, as many of us were... so I decided to have a shufty and see if I could maybe treat myself.

 

I looked at the Class 43 HST Virgin Rail East Coast with TTS Sound , a little expensive I thought but after reading more I thought OK I will treat myself.

 

It is PRE-ORDER due 13 August

 

I then looked at carriages to go with it as it is a Virgin loco it needs Virgin carriages.

PRE-ORDER due 26 October!

 

Is this an example of Hornby planning? What good is a Virgin loco without Virgin carriages???

 

I thought not to worry, Hornby are having issues, 10 weeks is crazy but they are estimated dates (which means it could be less than 10 weeks... but also means it could be more than 10 weeks!!!) 

 

After a think, shall I, shall I not, I thought go ahead I need something to lift me up a bit, so I placed items in the basket to PRE-ORDER them.

 

The Virgin Class 43 OK over £30 FREE P&P

 

I then placed the carriages in the basket and every one is under £30 so the system added £4.95 'per carriage' to the total!!!

 

I contacted Hornby about this, their reply so far is...

Thank you for your email, with Pre-Orders each order is treat as a stand alone order and if under £30.00 a delivery charge will be requested.

 

If I place this order I will not pay shipping on the loco, and as the carriages are all the same they will no doubt come in one batch and I would only pay, according to Hornby, one postage amount on the carriages only. 

 

My arguement, and I am sure many other members will think the same as I do regarding this is, if I place one order over £30 I should get FREE P&P off all items in the order, irrespective if the order is sent in two parcels. We had a successful internet business up until retiring and would never dream of charging a customer additional postage when the order was placed as one order.

 

I have replied to the email from Hornby and asked for it to be forwarded to a manager and to the person(s) responsible for decision making regarding this policy. 

 

Meanwhile, I have not placed the order, I have told them I will not be placing the order and paying postage, I also state that I serious consider now whether it is worth having the yearly membership for 10% off, I can get this elsewhere. I will wait and see what they say.

 

NOTE: The reason for this post is to let other members be aware, if a customer places a pre-order, and there are items in the order under £30, you could be charged postage for everyone of them!!!

 

[RB51]

That does seem unreasonable PJ - I am sure Hornby can sort that out properly for you, and everyone else for that matter.

 

Nice to see you back on here.

 

R-

[PJ_model_trains]

I totally agree Roger.

 

For me they have two options... 

 

As I stated to them, sometimes decisions are made without realising the impact they can have until hi-lighted to them. Hornby are struggling at present as we know, things like this can easily cause them more lost sales.

 

It is down to the manager(s) to consider and decide, their future is in their hands. 

 

At present Roger, due to issues, I am like the Virgin train... I am passing though   😎

[mjb1961]

Hi PJ ,,,,Why don't you ask a few Hornby retailers for a email notification when the coaches come into stock ,ask Hornby as well if they have this option,also I know you'll get 10% club discount but some retailers do knock 15% off the rrp and some do free delivery so they could be cheaper ,,,,,mjb

[Slornie]

See, I kind of disagree and also understand why Hornby take the approach they have, which actually is no different to how stores like Amazon operate for pre-orders.

 

Despite you picking the products together as one transaction Hornby's system is configured to treat each pre-order independent of everything else because potentially each pre-order item will enter into stock and then be despatched separately at different times (dates).  That's a completely different proposition to buying products that are available now and can be consolidated together for shipping.

 

What might be a viable compromise, if Hornby's system can handle it, would be to add an option when pre-ordering that says "hold items until they can be shipped together" which would then allow the pre-order values to be aggregated towards the free shipping threshold.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi mjb1961

 

The main reason retailers take Pre-Orders is to help them when they order the products. We used it for the same reason in our business. If you get 600 pre-orders for an item you may order 1000 but,if you didn't have the pre-orders you would not know 600 wanted them and may only order 500-600. As a result they would sell out quicker, reduce their sales total thus reducing their profit, and upset more people when they sell out and don't have any for months when another delivery arrives.

 

The other advantage with pre-orders is it helps you order more accurately, although never 100%, but most important you do not end up with to many and have dead money on warehouse shelves.

 

Pre-Orders help a company, customers should not have to pay postage when they have spent a few hundred pounds in an order. 

 

Another way for a company to look at this is FREE P&P for orders over £30. If the order is say £100-£200 etc, how many £30 are in that value.

 

Thank for your comments.  😉

[poliss]

I've never pre-ordered anything in my life. I've reserved quite a few things, but 'pre-ordered' never.

[Bulver]

Hi PJ, great to see your name up on the postings board again.  So sorry you have been been under the weather, hopefully you are now on the up.

i can see both sides of the discussion here, I know that is what a lot of big retailers do, the Liverpool team have done it to me, and another down near the South Coast, so don't think Hornby are alone in this.

i agree with Slornie's suggestion, it would be only a small amendment to their order program, computer wise, but whether they would have the facilities (I.e. space and staff) to hold stock is another matter.

Rod

[NormanQ4]

Only 30 quid. To get free postage to Australia you have to spend 130.  Have a look at the pre-orders and see how many items you find over 130, just a few locos, no coaches , no wagons.

I've raised this with Hornby before and it falls on deaf ears, but good luck anyway.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi Slornie

 

I understand why it is done but do not agree with it. Reasons above.

 

I am not sure a company would want to hold items until other items come in, same week maybe for odd items but not two and a half months, certainly not. Holding stock in this manner has to many risks, to many chances of human error, damage and it is duplicating work. 

[poliss]

I bought an four socket extension lead recently. It was just over a tenner and had free postage. Ordered it on a Sunday and it arrived the next day.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi Bulver

 

Thanks for your kind comments, sadly my issues are long term and I am with them for life. A daily struggle but we just have to get on with life.

 

I take your comments but have to say I cannot see any company holding stock for other items to come in, if you turn over a large amount and we certainly did, you don't want stock held up, risk of errors or damage. So the order in order out is right, it has to be fast track, staff also work better... pick, pack, parcel out. Yes it is a productivity statement but it is true and there are less chance of errors when staff work this way.

 

Here we have a situation, where for what ever reason, the Hornby twin cab loco arrives 10 weeks (estimated) before the coaches. Who wants a Virgin loco and no coaches.

 

But below is the silly part which I have asked Hornby to look into and it has been referred to a manager as requested, I wait a reply.

 

 

You can pre-order any item over £30 and not pay P&P

 

But order 1,2,3,4,5 coaches or anything else under £30 on pre-order and they add £4.98 P&P for 'every item' 

 

NOTE >>> every item <<< pre-order under £30 + £4.98 P&P (UK)

 

Pre-orders are not main stream sales, so it is possible they have not realised this until it is hi-lighted to them. We shall wait and see what they have to say. They may say no that is it we stick to our guns, or they could say, ermmm we didn't realise that and will look into it and maybe change it. Personally my guess is it has not been noticed and they are not aware. Time will tell.

[Slornie]

Here we have a situation, where for what ever reason, the Hornby twin cab loco arrives 10 weeks (estimated) before the coaches. Who wants a Virgin loco and no coaches.

 

There could be many reasons for this, not least that they may being manufactured in a different factory by a different manufacturer.   If Hornby don't want to pay to hold stock in the UK they're just as unlikely to want to hold an entire shipment in China and wait for a separate order to be completed.

 

You can pre-order any item over £30 and not pay P&P

But order 1,2,3,4,5 coaches or anything else under £30 on pre-order and they add £4.98 P&P for 'every item' 

NOTE >>> every item <<< pre-order under £30 + £4.98 P&P (UK)

 

Yes, but that's because each pre-ordered item is counted as a separate transaction, unlike when you buy in-stock goods together.  When you pre-order items you are essentially making three, four, five individual orders: it's the same as if you waited until those coaches came into stock and then bought them one at a time - you would also be charged P&P each time the total value was under £30.

 

Pre-orders are not main stream sales, so it is possible they have not realised this until it is hi-lighted to them. We shall wait and see what they have to say. They may say no that is it we stick to our guns, or they could say, ermmm we didn't realise that and will look into it and maybe change it. Personally my guess is it has not been noticed and they are not aware. Time will tell.

 

I'm pretty sure they are aware.  Take a look at their Pre-order FAQ, which includes this:

 

Question: Why is more than one delivery charge showing in my basket?

Pre-Order items will be despatched as soon as they come into stock. If you have different Pre-Order items in your basket, or a mixture of Pre-Order and in stock items these will each show a separate delivery charge if applicable. 

[PJ_model_trains]

 

I am aware of everything you say but...

 

Pre-Orders help a company judge how many items to purchase. If a customer looks to place an order, as I did, and finds £4.98 added for every pre-order item under £30 in the basket, they will no doubt do what I did, they will not place the pre-order.

 

As a result the pre-order system fails to work for them, they do not have any way of knowing demand, they will probably order less than they would if they knew how many pre-orders there were. They sell out faster, upset some customers and the bottom line... lose sales they could have had that is reflected in lower profits!

 

There is no way I would add any order and have an extra £4.98 P&P added for every pre-order item under £30.

 

So, I wait to hear from Hornby, but will no longer pre-order any item, and with that decision it means I also have to review whether paying to get 10% discount is worthwhile for me, especially as I know I can save more elsewhere and not pay for the privilege. 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

I am not sure why your message shows here Slonie, I edited it out.

Having submitted the post I went back to edit it, it doesn't show so I cannot do anything to correct it?