Track Plan 12th Edition Layout 7 HELP

[Ralphy5]

Dear Chris and Fishmanoz,

I shall take onboard all the above infomation you have kindly given to me.

That TT site is fantastic Chris and will enable me to finish my DCC TT project with the understanding of why etc.

As you have both suggested I will keep it as simple as I can, and will go with the one RLM

If I have correctly understood your info guys in regards to that :

I can Cancel  F and A   IRJ's,  allowing me to move E a little futher towards the original A position. This will help to allow for a longer train length and also help stop the problems associated with that, as you pointed out. 

Operational limitation of only having one train at any given moment in the RLM protected area

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Is this O/K.

The wagon with Tape on it , what a brillant idea!

Kindest Regards,

Peter

[Chrissaf]

Peter, unbeknownst to you I was beavering away on a new set of drawings. I came here to post them and found your reply, so my timing is very apt. I think you will be pleased to see that the final solution I have documented mirrors your posted version almost exactly.

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For completeness of information and to aid understanding of reverse loop theory, I thought it would be useful to identify the five reverse loops that I found in the original track plan. One can probably find a couple more routes that generate reverse loops (particularly with regard to reverse loop 4, if the outer ovals were also incorporated in it), but they would be just variations of the five key core loops I found.

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The RLM protected section bordered by IRJ positions A, B, C & D is effectively common to ALL five loops found so far, thus ALL five can be simultaneously protected via a single RLM unit. As you can see, I have moved IRJs B, C & D much closer to the points. Thus trains can be waiting at the B, C & D points as necessary for the protected section to clear. Being so close to the points ensures that only one train can enter the protected section at a time at the B, C & D position. One would operationally expect that trains would also be held there if there is another train approaching the protected section clockwise towards IRJ position A, else they would be travelling 'head on'.

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Thus, I think this plan virtually eliminates the train movement in and out of the RLM protected section operational issues that were previously documented. If two trains are tail chasing towards the protected section, then the rear one would need to be held back until such time as the front one had cleared the section. Not too dissimilar to real life 'block occupancy'. But this limitation is an inherent one for any RLM protected section on any layout.

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Regard TT modification. Brian included an RLM into his TT modification designs. If that RLM TT modification option was adopted, then you could use the RLM function of the 'Booster' (you have purchased) for the main track protected section (power overkill granted, but feasible), and relegate the basic RLM to the TT. No loss of investment, a win win situation.

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Anyway, enough words, here are the drawings:

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[Ralphy5]

Chris, a hearty thank you for all your time and hard work you have invested in this project of mine.

I finally worked out there were 3 Reverse loops 1, 2 and 3 as per your diagrams but didn't see 4 and 5.

You are brilliant, mind you it took me half the night working out just the 3 of them, and I now after much deliberation understand why you advise moving B C & D closer to the points.

As far as the TT is concerned, I'm thinking of going with the Walther 90' TT. It is much quieter, has a smoother operation, is a split type (like the Hornby) which should stop the  polarity problems it seems, without having to butcher the Hornby TT. I believe by putting  power on all sidings and the TT itself should then take Loco's with sound, that is if I have understood correctly the posts here and the U Tube posts regarding this problem. If that doesn't work out, as you sugest and as per Brians recommendation on his site in using a RLM, I will use the Booster for the main track protected section, and RLM to the TT.

I can also put the Walthers TT directly on the base board like the Hornby, but without having to cut out a hole, as I will need to raise most of this section, to help with attaining a max of a 2 degree incline on the raised section of track.

Well hopefully that’s the electrical part worked out, and it also allows me to at a later stage as my expertise grows with DCC, to use the E Link in conjunction with the Elite as per yourself.

But before all that, I have some serious work ahead with setting it up, checking derailments, the incline etc. I shall definitely let you all know how it goes with this layout design. That's going to take a few months I guess, working on it as my body and mind allows.

So thank you all so much, your knowledge has made it possible to turn this DC layout into a DCC one. But more importantly you all have given me the knowledge and courage to make it a reality.

Best regards,

Ralphy,

 

[Chrissaf]

Your message seen.....

Chris

[96RAF]

Looking forward to the progress reports Ralphy.

[Fishmanoz]

I trust it all goes well.

[RB51]

Ditto from me - any chance of photos of the progress? R-

[Ralphy5]

Will certainly give update photos as I go. And I also hope others will use this design and give it a go as well.

Who knows maybe hornby will finally put these track layouts on Railmaster as well ! Can't understand why they haven't done this already

Thanks again all of you wonderful fellows.

Regards,

Ralphy

[Chrissaf]

Just had a thought.....If you were to place signals at A, B, C & D with manual over-ride capabilities. Then they could act as markers for where the IRJs are fitted when controlling train movements from a distance, and when set to danger give a reason for the train to stop at those locations. Perhaps particularly relevant to position A on the plan.

[Ralphy5]

You are a very clever man Chris, what a brillant idea, I will certainly do that now.

Thankyou,

Ralphy

[OzPepper]

I was searching for info on reverse loops and I came across this thread. Am completedly blown away!

Wow.. great thread, everyone! Especially Chrissaf, RogerB and Fishmanoz for so enthusiastically and completely immersing yourselves to advise a fellow modeller! I am also happy that Peter got the info he required (although the layout is and probably, will ever be, waaaaay more sophisticated than whatever I would delve into! ;-)  )

I have been sporadically asking for help since I bought my 1st train set a few months ago. Things have not been progressing fast enough.. and that's mainly because whilst I have a garden shed where I wish to build my final layout, has not been cleaned/cleared enough for me to build a table and base board one. It's the spiders I am having trouble with. Aussie spiders ('nuff said). I need to seal off completely and prep the shed against creepy-crawlies before I place my expensive toys in it.

In the meantime, I have been running my layout on the floor of my spare lounge room (and getting the evil eye from the better half).  I felt the time had come to extend the tracks of the original set (The Hornby Majestic). And I drew up a draft layout which looks interesting to me.

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Before I go out and buy more stuff, can anyone advise if the above is doable? It seems very simple, compared to the other queries I have seen so far. But as I am really a noob - it still stumps me about reverse loops.

Thanks in advance!

[RB51]

/media/tinymce_upload/4e7a31625b52ba4ecbd278949d3852ec.pngHi OzP, there is no doubt that it is doable as you have it - but you will be limited operationally.

 

As a minimum I would add another crossover as per the attached drawing to allow the other circuit to be used without a train reversing across the points. At the moment a train coming off the reversing loop and back onto the outer curcuit will have to reverse back into the reversing loop to be turned around so that it can run forwards when back on the outer track. Perhaps you will not mind this.

 

If you really want to reverse trains and you have the space I would seriously consider opening the two running circuits right up and putting two reverse loops across the middle. That way a train running in either direction can be reversed from the inner loop.

 

R-

[Chrissaf]

The Hornby Majestic is digital and comes with RailMaster & eLink, so yes, a Reverse Loop Module (RLM) will support the loop. Just for completeness of information. You cannot use a DCC RLM on an Analogue DC layout. On DC you would replicate what the RLM is doing via manually operated DPDT switches (Double Pole Double Throw).

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[OzPepper]

Oh.. brilliant advice, Roger and Chris! That's enlightening!

Thanks, Roger for the suggestion about operability - looks like I had not put enough thought into it before - I was just trying to maximise the tracks from 2 sets. But 2 reverse loops - that's an idea!

I'll try drawing it out and see if it makes sense. Thanks again, chaps!

[trainlover23]

 The easier way is to buy the Peco Shows You How Booklet Wiring the layout part one £1.00 from all good modelshops a very good and easy guide to follow.