Adding Colbolt IP points motors

[MRMGB]

Hi...

Suddenly feeling very old and tecnology has beaten me! I'm new to this DCC lark and need some help. I've purchased 8 DCC concepts Colbolt IP points motors. Now trying to figure out how to install the blighters if baffling me.... Does anyone have, or know of "the idiots guide" or step bu step to intalling these things with elink/railmaster.

I've trolled through websites, and spent days trying to find a simple help page or diagram.. No luck. So I'm turning to a forum for help.

All help is greatly appreciated.

MrMGB

[96RAF]

Welcome to the forums.. Mrmgb or should we call you 45DCOE Or is that just the Oselli conversion.

 

Go to the FORUM search box (not the main site search box) and enter Cobalt (note the spelling) and you will get a whole list of topics related to your question.

[Chrissaf]

Mr MGB,

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Although all the info was there somewhere in the search results that RAF pointed you to. I decided to comply with your request to provide an idiots guide tailored specifically for your stated situation. Thus you don't have to trawl through all the posts returned in the search and decide which ones are relevant or not. However, there is one assumption that I have had to make. I have assumed you are using DCC Concepts iP Digital point motors as there are other types of Cobalts in the DCC range and you didn't specify which ones.

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Assuming Cobalt iP Digital point motors.

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Setting up and using these DCC Concepts products really isn’t rocket science. They are simple to configure and program once the basic building block steps are understood and mastered.

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Firstly, you need to understand that these products contain ‘Self Learning’ decoders. This means that you completely ignore the sections in the Hornby instructions for configuring ‘Accessory Decoders’. Hornby’s instruction are not relevant and do not apply to ‘Self Learning’ DCC Concepts Decoder products.

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The DCC Concepts Cobalt iP Digital point motors require, during the configuration process, for the controller to send a number of DCC Addresses. Namely, the DCC Address that you want to configure the point motor with, plus some special use addresses 19x - see next paragraph.

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This could be any number supported by your controller that is also in the range 001 to 2049 except 197, 198 & 199, these three 19x addresses have specific uses (covered later).

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The issue with Hornby eLink is that there are no physical control knobs and/or buttons to send these DCC Addresses to the Cobalt iP Digital motors. Thus the following preparation activities need to be implemented within RailMaster before starting to configure the motors.

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In conjunction with the flowing text section, refer to Pages 77 to Page 98 of the RailMaster 1.64 User Manual.

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In RailMaster, you need to access the ‘Design a Track Plan’ part of the application. Design a graphical representation of your layout and place point icons as appropriate on the track plan.

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Drag a point operation icon to the centre of a positioned point (turnout) using the left mouse button and release. Both Red & Green point operation icons should ‘snap’ to the point icon. If you don’t get this ‘snapping’ action, then you are not doing this task correctly.

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Right Click the point operating icon and fill in the details in the resultant popup such as:

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Controller = A (I am assuming that you have only one physical eLink controller).

Decoder port = xxx (where xxx is the DCC port address you want to allocate to this point - see next paragraph).

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I suggest starting at 001 and increment each point sequentially by 1, thus you will have your points numbered 001, 002, 003, 004, 005, to 008 for your eight Cobalts.

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In the Type box select Hornby R8247 as the Accessory Decoder.

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Now additionally, you need to add three dummy points to your track plan and give them addresses 197, 198 and 199 these are just temporary and will/may be used during the Cobalt iP Digital point motor configuration process. Once everything is set up and the Cobalts configured and working, then these three dummy points can be deleted from the track plan. These three 19x numbers can not be used as normal Cobalt point addresses.

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You should now have your track plan configured with all the eight points you intend to use on your layout, plus the three temporary dummy ones. Eleven in total.

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Save your track plan and restart RailMaster so that this saved track plan loads as the default. Configure this track plan as your ‘Start Up’ track plan in RailMaster ‘System Settings’ – see manual page 22.

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The reason for doing the above is two-fold:

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• Firstly it needs to be done anyway, as it is the track plan that is used to operate your points when operating your layout under DCC with eLink.
• Secondly, in the absence of any physical manual operation buttons on the eLink, this is the only way that you can get the eLink to send the required DCC Address commands to the Cobalt point motors during the setting up and configuration process documented below.

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OK, now turn your attention to the Cobalt iP Digital point motors. These need to be connected to your DCC Track A&B output of the eLink in parallel to the track layout itself. YOU DO NOT NEED TO CONNECT THE COBALT iP POINT MOTORS TO THE PROGRAMMING OUTPUT OF THE eLINK AT ANY TIME.

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By default, the Cobalt iP Digital has ‘self centering’ enabled. This makes it easier to mount the point motor under the baseboard centrally under the throw of the point (turnout) tie bar.

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Once mounted and wired up to the eLink track output. The ‘self centering’ needs to be disabled. This is where the dummy point in the track plan with address 198 comes into play.

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There is a mechanical switch on the Cobalt marked ‘run’ and ‘set’. Put the switch in the ‘set’ position.

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Now send DCC address 198 to the Cobalt by clicking the point operation icon for point 198 from within RailMaster.

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Now return the switch to the ‘Run’ position.

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Now briefly remove the power supply from the Cobalt then reconnect it - termed a power cycle.

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The ‘self centering’ should now be disabled.

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If you ever need to re-enable the ‘self centering’ perform the same steps above but use address 199 instead of 198, remember to include the power cycle afterwards.

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Now to set the Cobalt Address.

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Put the switch back into the ‘Set’ position.

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Now click the point operation icon in RailMaster for the point that you want to address with the previously configured address. In my example above, this was 001 for the first point (turnout) up to 008 for the last point (turnout).

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Restore the Cobalt switch back to ‘Run’ – there is no need to cycle the power when setting the DCC address. You only cycle the power when using the special 19x addresses.

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Now test the Cobalt for operation.

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If it throws in the wrong direction. Then use the ‘self centering’ procedure documented above but send address 197 instead. Then cycle the power, this will reverse the direction of operation of the Cobalt and it will be remembered by the Cobalt for future uses.

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Repeat the above for the next Cobalt iP Digital point motor, this time using address 002

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Repeat the above for the next Cobalt iP Digital point motor, this time using address 003

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And so on, until all point motors are fitted, addressed and tested.

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This is a very long reply. Please do not use the Blue Button with the White Arrow to reply. This is NOT a 'Reply to this Post' button. Instead scroll down the page and write your reply in the big empty reply text box and click the Green Reply button.

 

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[Chrissaf]

One additional bit of info. For DCC operation using Hornby track (no powered frogs). The minimum connectivity needed is just terminals 1 & 2 (DCC In) these double up as being the power connection that needs disconnecting and connecting to perform a power cycle. It is terminals 1 & 2 that ultimately connect to the eLink A&B Track output. All other pin connections are for options.

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/media/tinymce_upload/66eaaa7fa2a369d20f3ef8566ce7cdef.jpg

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[Fishmanoz]

Gee Chris, I thought the simple procedure was move the switch to Set, throw the point you want it to operate on your track plan, put the Switch back to Run and you're done!  Must be done for each decoder in the group.

 

Actually, that's just what Chris did say, plus some self-centring and reversing direction stuff.  These things really are simple.

[Chrissaf]

No disrespect to Mr MGB intended, but he did give the distinct impression in his plea that he wanted to be 'spoon fed' with detailed 'step by step' instruction rather than brief edited highlights and left to work out the detail for himself.

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Now that I have added the link to my reply to my forum boilerplate I won't need to rewrite it again. Just provide a URL back to this page in the future if the question gets asked again. Which it probably will.......

[MRMGB]

Hi Chrissaf

You are a star, and thank you for all that info. When I get home this evening i will be trying your info to get those points motors up and operating.... All 8 of them.

MRMGB

[Chrissaf]

Just be aware, that another forum member on here had about 20 or so of these to install and he found about 6 of them wouldn't accept the DCC address configuration. In other words there may be a batch of dodgy ones floating about. DCC Concepts or the supplier exchanged the faulty ones for him without quibble.

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So if you have problems with the first one you pick out of the box, do try another and don't assume that the instructions are wrong. DCC Concepts offer a lifetime warranty for the product for as long as you own it, so there shouldn't be any trouble getting ANY suspect ones exchanged. Hopefully, all will go smoothly for you.

[Fishmanoz]

Richard Johnson at DCC Concepts certainly does have a no questions asked replacement policy on his products.  He even replaced a loco decoder for me that I told him clearly I'd burnt out through my own error ( wound the wick up on a loco I thought was stopped on a point when in fact the wheels were bound due to the quartering being out).  One thing I can confirm is the stall current of an X04 motor exceeds 1 Amp, even with a nice new neo magnet in it.  And I can confirm the heatshrink won't keep the smoke in when the bridge rectifier becomes a zero wave type.

 

i also wasn't having a go at anyone, just emphasising the simplicity of these Learn mode decoders.  When these types were first around, people were failing to address them because they were over-complicating things, not just doing the simple switch-throw-switch back operation on the track that is all these decoders need.  It just concerned me slightly that people might look at the length of Chris's post and think "too hard" when all Chris has done is describe the simple process in his usual clear, correct and thorough way.

[Chrissaf]

Don't worry Fishy...I had spotted that your comment was light hearted and in no way being derogatory. I do try and avoid doing my 'war and peace' replies. I know it doesn't look like it, but I do make an effort to be brief. There are just these odd occasions when reading between the lines of the OP text, that I see that they are clearly struggling and want that extra level of detail to help them out.

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Your quite right, your two lines elegantly summarised my three A4 pages of text, but I doubt that your brief description would have helped MrMGB on this occasion. But you were right to add them for the benefit of the casual flyby reader, as they do summarise the process very effectively.

[MRMGB]

Hi Chris

Huge thank you for taking the time and helping me... Your "Idiots Guide" worked a treat. I have all the motors working (kind of). Just have to adjust them so they open and close the points completely. Most are fine, but 3 need looking at. Plus I think I have one bad motor as it only moves a few milimeters.

I'm using Peco points and they have the arm to the side where you put the point motor pin through. Now last night I stumbled on a website saying that Colbalt IP motors need to be fitted through a hole in the center of the point. So I'm not sure I've used the right points. I've attached a photo showing what I mean./media/tinymce_upload/35c586642e8714407e5f2324da3ae300.jpg

Even with all the problems... this beginner is still enjoying the hobby. Again thanks for your help. Now off to fettle those points motors that are giving me trouble.

Martyn (MRMGB)

[Rog RJ]

The hole is in the centre of the tie bar on modern points.  You should be  OK  using either of the side holes on your points. 

[Chrissaf]

I use Peco Streamline 00 Electrofrog points, but I don't recognise the ones in the photo. Are they per-chance Peco N gauge?

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Either way, the reference to the  'hole in the middle' - this is the normal place to find the hole on 00 points from Hornby and Peco. So the Cobalt instruction are probably just assuming that is where the hole should be found. I don't see an issue driving the point back and forth via an offset hole, that shouldn't make any difference.

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The forum reports do seem to show a relatively high % of Cobalts being faulty out of the packaging. Hence my follow up comment last night. One out of 8 is 12.5%......so much for DCC Concepts claim that they test every Cobalt several times during the manufacturing process.

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Glad my idiots guide worked for you......I've never used a Cobalt, so I just wrote it based upon my interpretation of the Cobalt manual plus reading other previous posts on this forum.

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Chris

[MRMGB]

Hi Chris

Yes im modeling in N scale (small spare room). The track and points are all Peco Set Track. Having to model on a budget it was the price point of the track that swayed my purchase. This being my first layout thought it would be a great way to learn. So far a huge learning curve, especially with the DCC side. I liked the idea of being able to control the layout via my laptop/tablet and thats why I went Elink/Railmaster. Still have a few issues there with the laptop is running Windows 10 and Railmaster can't always find the com port the Elink is pluged into. All things that I'll get sorted.

Last weekend went down to Beer in Devon and to the Peco shop... Well needless to say the monthly train budget went out the window... lol.

Martyn (MRMGB)

[Silver Shiney]

 Thank you, Chris, for this detailed reply.  I'm afraid that even the "simple" instructions given by the manufacturers stumped me, so your detailed reply is extremely helpful.

 

Another couple of questions, if I may:  I have a pair of points at the entrance to a terminal station, in such a way that a train coming in on the left-hand (incoming) track can move over to the right-hand (outgoing) track if there is another train already on the left hand side.  Would I need to set each point separately or can the two motors be linked to change together?  Is it possible to also have the motor unit control signal lights?  And finally, is it easy to open the little box housing the spring on the points - the one bit of the DCC instructions that I did understand is that this spring is no longer needed.

 

Basic questions on electronics, I know, but something I find hard to grasp (which is why I got kicked off an RAF avionics apprenticeship years ago!).

[Chrissaf]

For the benefit of other's reading this. Silver Shiney has Cobalt IP Digital point motors and RailMaster with eLink (information taken from another Shiney post in the DCC forum).

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The three supplementary questions are:

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1. Can I operate two points together using the IP Digitals.
2. Can the IP Digital's control signals.
3. Spring in points (removal?).

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Answers:

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1. Yes. There is no communication path back from the IP Digitals to RM. Thus RM doesn't care if more than one IP Digital has the same DCC address. If you always want two points to operate together, like a cross-over for example, just give both IP Digitals the same DCC address. You can also have two point icons with the same DCC address configured on your RM track plan. Thus clicking either RM point icon will switch both points. If you pay extra for the Railmaster PRO upgrade (about £30) then you get the option to link two points together that have different DCC addresses.
2. Yes, but it depends upon the type of signals being installed regarding how to achieve it. If the signals are DCC controlled and have their own decoder. You can link points and signals together using Railmaster PRO. If the signals are just basic (2 aspect Red/Green) manually switched electrical circuits then you can use the change-over contacts built into the IP Digital to control them (see drawing below). Thus the Red/Green signal display can be synchronised to the point position. Use terminals 4, 5 & 6 on the IP Digital's (see graphic on previous page 1 of this topic thread).
3. Personally, I treat removing the point spring as an optional instruction in the IP Digital installation guide (for the rivet counters who desire proto-typical point operation). In my view, it doesn't need to be removed from a technical viewpoint. Other's may take a different view. Leaving the spring in-situ is belt'n'braces for more reliable point operation. I've never removed a spring from a Hornby point, but I am led to believe that it is easy to do. Getting it back in (if you find you have subsequent problems and need to reinstate them) may be a another matter altogether.

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/media/tinymce_upload/60ec3264a58cf17f1f488f003833a247.jpg

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For the circuit specifically shown in the drawing. Use a separate external 12 volt DC PSU. Best, if you do not try and use your DCC track voltage to power your signals unless they are of the native DCC type with integral decoders.

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PS - You will find that there are a few ex RAF bods on this forum for you to reminisce with.

 

[Silver Shiney]

Very many thanks, Chris, you're a star.  I will be having a go at your marvellous instructions shortly - a few family issues are needing attention right now.

[Chrissaf]

I know I am......that's why I burn so brightly....and risk going super-nova  😉

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PS - If the wrong signal colour lights up when the point is thrown, just reverse the wires on IP Digital terminals 4 & 5.

[Silver Shiney]

Well, I've installed five if the motors - a sixth worked for maybe half a dozen throws then jammed and got very warm. I'm waiting for a replacement. One won't reverse under code 197 but I'll just rotate the motor 180 degrees under the baseboard. 

Windows 10 had a major update which stopped the elink working altogether, so I've gone back to W7. Unfortunately, although the layout file survived the transition, I've lost the settings for the locos - two are DCC fitted but Railmaster says it can't find them in the database.

I also find the software often says the elink isn't connected

Sorry, just realised I am going way off topic!

[Fishmanoz]

Just to note that we know the latest W10 update is compatible with RM so you have another issue.

 

Did you reinstall the latest update after you reverted to 7, that would explain locos missing in the database?

[Chrissaf]

My installation of RM is on a laptop with Windows 10 Anniversary Edition and I cannot find any issues with it. RM functions exactly as before, prior to the Anniversary Update.

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Regarding:

Windows 10 had a major update which stopped the elink working altogether,

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If you had not invoked a knee jerk reaction and reverted to W7 and instead, seen my 'Windows 10 Anniversary Update post' in the forum RailMaster section. You would have seen that the most likely reason that your eLink stopped working after the update was because the comms port may have been reassigned - this is a very simple RM configuration fix to resolve.

[Chrissaf]

I also find the software often says the elink isn't connected.

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Ensure you have both these lines of text in your railmaster.ini file.

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Alternative comms=1

Check controller=1

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To check and edit your railmaster.ini file, open the 'Help' window (RM top navigation bar). Click the 'COG' icon on the 'About' tab and follow on screen prompts. After editing the file and saving it, close and reopen RM.

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TIP: even if the two lines above are present as written. Delete them and re-type them again at the end of the .INI file as the last two entries. Doing that sometimes helps.

[Silver Shiney]

Thank you, Fishmanoz - yes, I did perform an update to the software on reinstallation, but it then it said it couldn't find the locos.  I had even backed up the .ini file from the previous installation...

 

Chris, many thanks again for your patience guidance.  Reverting to Windows 7 wasn't knee-jerk reaction, I simply do not like poxware 10 (haven't Microsoft ever heard of the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?  Why do they keep "fixing" things??).  I have now added those two lines to the ini file - funnily enough, when I switched the laptop on this morning, the first time in a couple of weeks, it recognised the elink straightaway.

 

I now have to switch one of the Cobalt units over as, no matter how many times I reset it, it simply won't reverse direction!  I was going to just mount it the other way round, but it's a bit close to the baseboard support so will be easier to  substitute it and remount it under another set of points.

 

Now it's back to building more scenery to go at the back of the board where it's out of reach (or will be once the layout is completed) before I can resume the more interesting stuff of laying track!