Power from Elite "Prog" to prog track

[Jimbo1707820979]

Maybe a silly question but should not my programming track show "live" when connected to the Prog outlet on the Elite. Is something amiss with my Elite ?

[Howbi]

No, you can't drive a motor whilst in prog mode so no voltage is registered, the Elite sends a digital code to your decoder as you select each CV.......HB

[96RAF]

And there will only be a low current output to protect your decoder when it is actually programming.

[Chrissaf]

When you are using the Elite to program something on the programming track, you will hear a relay clicking. What the Elite is doing with the internal relay is sending pulses of full voltage to the loco decoder, to charge up decoder components to assist with the programming activity. The pulses are brief and may not register on a multi-meter due to the meter measuring latency (more likely to see it on a oscilloscope). The full voltage is then removed when the relay releases. Thus, it is difficult to detect any significant measured voltage on the programming track, unless using a scope. Outside the actual time periods when pulses are being sent, there is nothing to measure.

[Jimbo1707820979]

When you are using the Elite to program something on the programming track, you will hear a relay clicking. What the Elite is doing with the internal relay is sending pulses of full voltage to the loco decoder, to charge up decoder components to assist with the programming activity. The pulses are brief and may not register on a multi-meter due to the meter measuring latency (more likely to see it on a oscilloscope). The full voltage is then removed when the relay releases. Thus, it is difficult to detect any significant measured voltage on the programming track, unless using a scope. Outside the actual time periods when pulses are being sent, there is nothing to measure.

Wish I could, Chrissaf, but from earlier posts you may recall I am stone deaf. 😆 However, I will put my hand on the Elite to see if I can feel some action. Anyway I am much relieved after your news.

Thanks also to HM and Rob. I will now get cracking and try to reprogamme the acceleration on my pannier tank. I also have to do something about the deceleration on my Class 47 Sir Rowland Hill as it is rather like an ocean liner slowing down (which can have some nasty results to waiting rolling stock).

[96RAF]

The relay clicking is in synch with the red led flashing on then off Jimbo.

[Chrissaf]

I forgot Jimbo, but as Rob says. The relay operation is synced to the LED turning red. if you get no red LED periods, then something is wrong and the Elite won't be programming.

[Rog RJ]

It's easy to see the programming track getting voltage.  Just connect an LED with a resistor of about 5k or higher to the programming track and it will light as the programming (reading as well as writing) is taking place.

[Bulleidboy]

It also helps when programming to place your hand on top of the loco - it just makes sure you have a really good contact between wheels and track. 

[Jimbo1707820979]

I am getting 6 red flashes from my Elite when attempting programming, not 5. Does this mean the prog has been unsuccessful ? Or something else ?  Page 34 of the manual refers to 8 flashes denoting the programming has been unsuccessful.

[Howbi]

@Jimbo.......after you have "written" to a CV to change it you should then perform a "read" of that same CV to ensure it now has got the value that you require irrespective of how many flashes of the red led......HB

[96RAF]

I think the number of flashes may have changed over the various revisions, so as proof you should do as HowBiMan says and do a read.

Just be aware that if you ever program on the main track readback of CV values is not possible unless you have a RailCom capable decoder and it is enabled.

[Jimbo1707820979]

Thanks very much, Gentlemen, for your extremely useful comments. I have now set up an independent prog track connected to my Elite, housed in a low chest of drawers.  HB's suggestion of having an LED as a readout is very interesting- as is the suggestion of a read-back - and I shall be paying a visit to Maplins. 😀

[ff2nd]

If you're ever in doubt whether your Elite is sending power to your programming track, just take an AC reading of your Boost port. This shares a single power circuit with the Programming port. If you can, try programming with the AC meter still in your Boost port. You will see the voltage drop like a stone!

[Jimbo1707820979]

If you're ever in doubt whether your Elite is sending power to your programming track, just take an AC reading of your Boost port. This shares a single power circuit with the Programming port. If you can, try programming with the AC meter still in your Boost port. You will see the voltage drop like a stone!

Thanks ff. I have an ancient multimeter, a gift from a friend, which is Era 2 I should think. 😛  Luckily the Elite seems to be working OK, as you will see from my next post.

[Jimbo1707820979]

Hello All

I am pleased to report that I was able to change CV4 (deceleration) on my Class 47 "Sir Rowland Hill" from 150 down to 4 this morning. So no more near crashing into buffers etc.

On the other hand my 12 or so attempts to change the CVs  on my Hornby Class 2721 Pannier tank DCC Fitted resisted all efforts, staying stubbornly at 255 for both accel. and decel. Pressing down on the loco din't help. But at least the Elite allowed me to read those settings. So effectively it won't run.

Do you think the Hornby decoder could be corrupted or some other explanation ? Would it be best to have the decoder changed ?  Any views welcomed.

[96RAF]

Can you write value 8 to CV8 to reset the decoder back to all defaults including back to address 3 so you can start from there.

[Fishmanoz]

Jimbo, also note that 255 doesn't necessarily mean that's what they are actually set to, it usually means they haven't been read. 

 

Have you you tried disconnecting the layout from the track outputs and having only the programming track connected?

[Jimbo1707820979]

Can you write value 8 to CV8 to reset the decoder back to all defaults including back to address 3 so you can start from there.

Thanks, Rob. I will have a try now.

[Jimbo1707820979]

Jimbo, also note that 255 doesn't necessarily mean that's what they are actually set to, it usually means they haven't been read. 

 

Have you you tried disconnecting the layout from the track outputs and having only the programming track connected?

Useful bit of info re 255. Thanks Fishy.

Re the prog track: this is completely separate (in fact, in another room 😀)

[Jimbo1707820979]

Can you write value 8 to CV8 to reset the decoder back to all defaults including back to address 3 so you can start from there.

Thanks, Rob. I will have a try now.

Have tried it several times but the read-back keeps showing 255 so I guess, acc. to Fishy's info, that the decoder is not communicating. I think I will now give up and take the little critter to my local dealer for diagnosis. 😢   If it were a bigger loco, sold as DCCReady, I might have a go at changing the decoder myself but it probably has the decoder hard-wired in so I don't feel like going any further on my own for fear of doing damage.  Thanks to all, anyway.

 

[96RAF]

@jimbo

have a go at programming it in REG mode instead of DIRECT.

when you,get to Direct on the menu twist the knob until REG appears, click and carry on as usual.

sometimes a stubborn decoder will obey the helm in this mode.

[Jimbo1707820979]

@jimbo

have a go at programming it in REG mode instead of DIRECT.

when you,get to Direct on the menu twist the knob until REG appears, click and carry on as usual.

sometimes a stubborn decoder will obey the helm in this mode.

Thanks, Rob. I will certainly try that. I ahve a couple of weeks yet as my dealer's LCD boffin is on holiday. My impression to date is that decoders (being miniature computers) behave illogically sometimes like their bigger brothers ! The technology has some way to go yet.

[RDS]

...  HB's suggestion of having an LED as a readout is very interesting - as is the suggestion of a read-back ...

What does this refer to?  I cannot find any mention of it in this thread.

[Jimbo1707820979]

@jimbo

have a go at programming it in REG mode instead of DIRECT.

when you,get to Direct on the menu twist the knob until REG appears, click and carry on as usual.

sometimes a stubborn decoder will obey the helm in this mode.

Thanks, Rob. I will certainly try that. I ahve a couple of weeks yet as my dealer's LCD boffin is on holiday. My impression to date is that decoders (being miniature computers) behave illogically sometimes like their bigger brothers ! The technology has some way to go yet.

I meant DCC of course!!