Lighting 6v and 12v

[PJ_model_trains]

As many will know from my link in the signature below I have a lot of lighting on my layout. ;o)

 

Some is 12v and some is with a resistor to make it 12 volt to suit the transformer.

 

All lighting to date kept separate, e.g.12v station or street lights in parallel to one switch each, or Railway Inn 6 volt with resistor to one switch.

 

I am pretty sure I know the anwser but float the question anyway... can I add a series of 12v lights to my platforms, in parallel, and also add a 6v light with resistor (in parallel, all to one switch?

 

I want to maintain 12v station lights but also want to add other lighting under the canopy that is 6v but at the same time add them to just one switch.

 

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[Fishmanoz]

PJ, your answer is yes until you exceed the amperage of your supply.  When you put your lights in parallel, the volts remain the same and the current adds for each light.  Assuming all LEDs, max current they will be drawing is 30mA, so some 30 or more lights per 1 Amp supply current.

[PJ_model_trains]

Thanks Fishy

 

The answer I expected but thought it worth passing on the forum for two reasons, firstly to confirm what I thought before I tried it and secondly someone else may consider adding differeent voltage lights together to one switch.

 

Providing they are in parallel and a suitable resistor is used for the one that does not match the transformer power supply, in my case 12 volt.

 

Thanks again for your reply  😉

[Fishmanoz]

Resistor does not match the supply, or does match the supply?

[pidder]

Two 6 volts in series, then each pair in parallel?

[pidder]

Further to my above, not sure if you can put LEDs in series?

[PJ_model_trains]

Resistor does not match the supply, or does match the supply?

 

Very true Fishy, good point, a different resistor can be used to lessen the brightness. 😉

[PJ_model_trains]

Further to my above, not sure if you can put LEDs in series?

 

2x 6 volt led lights in series can be used powered from a switch, with a 12v suppply, you was correct in your first comment 😆

[Chrissaf]

PJ is yet to state whether his lights are LED or bulb based. The fact that he talks about them being either 12 volt or 6 volt would seem to infer that they are bulb.

.

Yes you can put LEDs in series....up to a point. Each LED will have a forward bias (FB) voltage, typically about 3v for a white LED. As you add LEDs to a series circuit the FBs are accumulative. So put 4 x 3v LEDs in series = 12 v, add a fifth LED and the they are likely to go out as the FB trigger voltage for each individual LED can not be achieved. For example 12 volt divide by 5 = 2.4 v. But do note, even if you put 4 x 3v LEDs on a 12 volt supply, I would still include a small value (say 47 ohms) series current protection resistor. LEDs are semi-conductor devices and should be treated as such from a circuit design point of view.

.

PS from a purely electrical point of view regarding series vs parallel all the previous suggestion are perfectly valid. Which is why I have been reading but not commenting until now. 

[PJ_model_trains]

PJ is yet to state whether his lights are LED or bulb based. The fact that he talks about them being either 12 volt or 6 volt would seem to infer that they are bulb.

.

Yes you can put LEDs in series....up to a point. Each LED will have a forward bias (FB) voltage, typically about 3v for a white LED. As you add LEDs to a series circuit the FBs are accumulative. So put 4 x 3v LEDs in series = 12 v, add a fifth LED and the they are likely to go out as the FB trigger voltage for each individual LED can not be achieved. For example 12 volt divide by 5 = 2.4 v. But do note, even if you put 4 x 3v LEDs on a 12 volt supply, I would still include a small value (say 47 ohms) series current protection resistor. LEDs are semi-conductor devices and should be treated as such from a circuit design point of view.

.

PS from a purely electrical point of view regarding series vs parallel all the previous suggestion are perfectly valid. Which is why I have been reading but not commenting until now. 

[PJ_model_trains]

PJ is yet to state whether his lights are LED or bulb based. The fact that he talks about them being either 12 volt or 6 volt would seem to infer that they are bulb.

.

Yes you can put LEDs in series....up to a point. Each LED will have a forward bias (FB) voltage, typically about 3v for a white LED. As you add LEDs to a series circuit the FBs are accumulative. So put 4 x 3v LEDs in series = 12 v, add a fifth LED and the they are likely to go out as the FB trigger voltage for each individual LED can not be achieved. For example 12 volt divide by 5 = 2.4 v. But do note, even if you put 4 x 3v LEDs on a 12 volt supply, I would still include a small value (say 47 ohms) series current protection resistor. LEDs are semi-conductor devices and should be treated as such from a circuit design point of view.

.

PS from a purely electrical point of view regarding series vs parallel all the previous suggestion are perfectly valid. Which is why I have been reading but not commenting until now. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Ermmm

Message to reply won't edit down to short statements I tried to include (not full message, not even removing the boxes and re-adding " "

My reply would have been...

 

So as not to be LED to believe my lights are bulbs... (they do not flower)

I confirm all my lights are LED  😆

 

So if all my LED's are 'in series... up to a point', does that mean I cannot have LED's in my sidings? LOL

[96RAF]

Hit the reply button PJ then hit the quotes ("") button and go from there - edit as required, type in your bit then requote if necessary.

 

LEDs in series will act as bulbs in series, if one dies they all go out, as for brightness, each one in series dims down the next one and so on until you run out of voltage (use Ohms law to work out when based on the LED/bulb spec), whereas LEDs in parallel act as if they were wired on their own.

 

If the point isolates your siding and the lights are wired into that rail system (but why would you) then the lights go out when the siding isolates.

[Flashbang]

TBH LEDs in series are ok up to a point but the major problems are always going to be A) If one goes out in the series chain they all go out in that chain and B) Colour / brightness matching may be an issue with series chains.

The LED resistor calculator web site is very useful to bookmark and use as required... http://www.led.linear1.org/led.wiz

Most LEDs will consume around 20 to 30 milliamps each and can be taken easily down to 10ma with a suitable higher value resistor. So a 1.0Amp 12volt DC power supply could feed 100 lit LEDs with a 1K0 series resistor in each LED  But its always wise to allow a little extra with power supplies so if I had 100 LEDs to light and each consumed 0.01A (10ma) I would feed them from a 1.5Amp regulated power supply.

 

Note the word 'Regulated' has crept in!  This means the power supplies voltage output is constant across its range of loading from little or no load to its maximum rated loading, thereby offering a constant voltage to all items being fed.  A conventional transformer/rectifier or train set controller will vary its output according to load. So at little loading the rated 12v may be around 16v to 17volts DC and at full load down to 11v or even less volts!

 

Regulated power supplied are fairly cheap to purchase and often sold for powering LED lighting or CCTV cameras. They do come in many current ratings outputs so ensure if purchasing one the output current is greater than that required and I suggest 1.0Amp (1000milliamp) is the minimum and 1.5A better.  

To save cutting off the 2.1mm moulded plug on a CCTV or LED power supply a simple connector is available usually for less than a £1 and these plugs onto the moulded plug and offers two terminals connections for onward wiring to the layout.  eBay and Amazon are good sources for power sullies and the connectors too.

 

Examples are here... 

Power supply.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5-Amp-CCTV-POWER-SUPPLY-12VOLT-PSU-High-Quality-CCTV-COLOUR-CAMERA-/191023643431?hash=item2c79e57b27:g:y4IAAOxyVLNSx6HB2.1mm Connector

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-2-1MM-DC-POWER-SOCKET-12V-CCTV-LED-STRIP-LIGHTS-ADAPTOR-CONNECTOR-FEMALE-/200954891620?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

[PJ_model_trains]

Hit the reply button PJ then hit the quotes ("") button and go from there - edit as required, type in your bit then requote if necessary.

I did that RAF, only clearing "" from all paragraph... lets try again, one paragraph at a ti e this time 😆

LEDs in series will act as bulbs in series, if one dies they all go out,

 

That is why all my groups of lights, station platforms etc are in parallel.

 

If the point isolates your siding and the lights are wired into that rail system (but why would you) then the lights go out when the siding isolates.

 

The reply was basically a joke based on Chissaf saying, keeping things light hearted and not to serious... lights 'up to a point'.

 

Lets see how this reply turns out, maybe paragraph at a time will work, whereas removing the "" from all then adding back didn't work for me last time. Here goes is it a 😉 or a 😮 

[PJ_model_trains]

Well covered guys, thanks Flashbang for the icing on the cake reply.

 

Lights in series are alright if we are happy to have to mess around when one blows and start by ask ourselves which one. That was why all group lights on my layout are in parallell, one of my lights has blow on one of my platforms, I caught it accidentally, all other lights remain on so it is not an issue and I convince myself it looks more natural with one not working. 😉

[PJ_model_trains]

Hit the reply button PJ then hit the quotes ("") button and go from there - edit as required, type in your bit then requote if necessary.

 

I did that RAF, only clearing "" from all paragraph... lets try again, one paragraph at a ti e this time 😆

 

LEDs in series will act as bulbs in series, if one dies they all go out,

 

 

That is why all my groups of lights, station platforms etc are in parallel.

 

If the point isolates your siding and the lights are wired into that rail system (but why would you) then the lights go out when the siding isolates.

 

 

The reply was basically a joke based on Chissaf saying, keeping things light hearted and not to serious... lights 'up to a point'.

 

Lets see how this reply turns out, maybe paragraph at a time will work, whereas removing the "" from all then adding back didn't work for me last time. Here goes is it a 😉 or a 😮 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

Hit the reply button PJ then hit the quotes ("") button and go from there - edit as required, type in your bit then requote if necessary.

 

I did that RAF, only clearing "" from all paragraph... lets try again, one paragraph at a time  😆

 

LEDs in series will act as bulbs in series, if one dies they all go out,

 

That is why all my groups of lights, station platforms etc are in parallel.

 

If the point isolates your siding and the lights are wired into that rail system (but why would you) then the lights go out when the siding isolates.

 

The reply was basically a joke based on Chissaf saying, keeping things light hearted and not to serious... lights 'up to a point'.

 

Lets see how this reply turns out, maybe paragraph at a time will work, whereas removing the "" from all then adding back didn't work for me last time. Here goes is it a 😉 or a 😮 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

Hit the reply button PJ then hit the quotes ("") button and go from there - edit as required, type in your bit then requote if necessary.

 

I did that RAF, only clearing "" from all paragraph... lets try again, one paragraph at a time 😆

 

LEDs in series will act as bulbs in series, if one dies they all go out,

 

That is why all my groups of lights, station platforms etc are in parallel.

 

If the point isolates your siding and the lights are wired into that rail system (but why would you) then the lights go out when the siding isolates.

 

The reply was basically a joke based on Chissaf saying, keeping things light hearted and not to serious... lights 'up to a point'.

 

Lets see how this reply turns out, maybe paragraph at a time will work, whereas removing the "" from all then adding back didn't work for me last time. Here goes is it a 😉 or a 😮 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

There has to be an error on here!

 

I have just truied to edit the message above and it just throws the original message as a new message with no edits?

 

Also I not...

Posted at                    NaN:NaN:NaN undefined, NaN undefined NaN

[PJ_model_trains]

 Admin informed

[96RAF]

Hit the reply button PJ then hit the quotes ("") button and go from there - edit as required, type in your bit then requote if necessary.

I did that RAF, only clearing "" from all paragraph... lets try again, one paragraph at a time 😆

LEDs in series will act as bulbs in series, if one dies they all go out,

That is why all my groups of lights, station platforms etc are in parallel.

If the point isolates your siding and the lights are wired into that rail system (but why would you) then the lights go out when the siding isolates.

The reply was basically a joke based on Chissaf saying, keeping things light hearted and not to serious... lights 'up to a point'.

Missed that - Rob

Lets see how this reply turns out, maybe paragraph at a time will work, whereas removing the "" from all then adding back didn't work for me last time. Here goes is it a 😉 or a 😮

 

@PJ

I just striped all your yellow boxed text and hit the quote button and it ends up plain text as above. You can then fiddle with it (Delete, amend as I did for the points joke, etc) and add your own response as below, then if required stripe what you want left as a quote and rehit the quote button to yellow box those bits..

..like this last bit (as long as there is a cirriage return to break the quoted text.

 

[PJ_model_trains]

Remember when car batteries where the opposit polarity to what they are now (causing them to be rust boxes)

 

We purchased a mark 3 Ford Cortina; everytime I went to drive it the engine started, every time my wife went to drive it she couldn't start it. I had my own business and one day she walked to where I was working and threw the car keys at me with words sometthing like flipping car. I drove her back to the car and put key in ignition, what happened it started! I always used to laugh and tell her it was because she wasn't holding her mouth right!  I think that is where it puts me now!

 

To conclude this off topic reply... I had changed the starter motor as the previous one was playing up, I got the replacement from the scrap yard and fit it myself (so it was my fault LOL). Maybe, the starter motor was the opposit polarity to the car batteries. So why did the car start for me and not for my wife? Women first... they started the cars by turning the key and letting it whirl and whirl, me being very deaf form age 6, I started the car by feel, I knew by the feel/vibrations the point the engine fired and the starter motor withdrew and let the engine take over, that didn't happen when my wife was starting the car as she was still screwing the starter motor with the key,

 

There you go, another bit of useless information. The good news is my wife now laughs when I joke about it.

 

Off topic, just a little... we are still talking electrics. I can tell you the air was electric when my wife walked a mile and a half to throw the car keys at me, even worse when the car started for me. But I am still here and we are still together. 😎

[PJ_model_trains]

Remember when car batteries where the opposit polarity to what they are now (causing them to be rust boxes)

 

We purchased a mark 3 Ford Cortina; everytime I went to drive it the engine started, every time my wife went to drive it she couldn't start it, she flooded it or flattened the battery. I had my own business then and one day she walked to where I was working and threw the car keys at me with words something like flipping car. I drove her back to the car and put key in ignition, what happened it started! I always used to laugh and tell her it was because she wasn't holding her mouth right!  I think that is where it puts me now!

 

To conclude this off topic reply... I had changed the starter motor as the previous one was playing up, I got the replacement from the scrap yard and fit it myself (so it was my fault LOL). Maybe, the starter motor was the opposit polarity to the car batteries. So why did the car start for me and not for my wife? Women first... they started the cars by turning the key and letting it whirl and whirl, me being very deaf form age 6, I started the car by feel, I knew by the feel/vibrations the point the engine fired and the starter motor withdrew and let the engine take over, that didn't happen when my wife was starting the car as she was still screwing the starter motor with the key,

 

There you go, another bit of useless information. The good news is my wife now laughs when I joke about it.

 

Off topic, just a little... we are still talking electrics. I can tell you the air was electric when my wife walked a mile and a half to throw the car keys at me, even worse when the car started for me. But I am still here and we are still together. 😎

 

[PJ_model_trains]

Blast it!

I just opened the last message to edit a couple of bits and then re submit it and it has done it again!