DCC on DC

[31 basher]

Hi all you experts, help please. Just purchased my first secondhand DCC SOUND fitted 31 intending to run it on my DC layout. (I have other DCC locos, not Hornby, that are DCC fitted and run normally). I have a gaugemaster DS controller. The DCC 31 will not run. The headcode lights light up at one end whether in forward or reverse but no movement. Any thoughts please. It may have been used before, don't know if DCC or DC useage. Thanks.

31 basher.

 

     

[Chrissaf]

Welcome Basher to the forum.

.

As it is secondhand, the previous owner has probably modified DCC CV29 to disable DC running. There is nothing you can do about without access to a DCC controller capable of writing to CVs (Configuration Variables). Note that a Hornby Select controller is no good either for this action, as it cannot write to CV29. You will either have to find someone you know with a DCC controller or take it to a specialist model railway shop and ask them to reset the decoder by writing decimal value 8 to CV8. This will re-instate all factory configuration defaults including CV29 DC running support enabled.

.

Question: Why are you paying a lot extra for sound equipped DCC fitted locos, then running them as a DC loco. I'm sure you will come back and say something like 'future-proofing' and intend to upgrade to DCC control later. If that is the case, then maybe it will be worthwhile investing in a DCC controller right now. Then you could write decimal 8 to CV8 yourself with it. And gain the benefit of full DCC control on your other DCC fitted locos too.

.

Note also, you may not get any sound from it running it on DC. Some do, some don't and the ones that do give sound on DC, only give you the very basic engine running sound.

[Howbi]

Hi 31 Basher.......welcome to the Forum..........DCC decoders can have various settings applied by the previous owners but as you don't have a DCC controller you are not able to check.......one of the settings is to have DC running turned ON or OFF...........yours may be turned OFF which would explain why it won't run on your system and ,of course, you can't get the benefit of the sound decoder either...........your best solution is to unplug and remove the sound decoder and obtain and fit a blanking plug into the now vacant decoder socket. This will enable normal DC running and should maintain the lighting circuits..........the socket is probably 8-pin but you need to check........most modellers have spare ones but they are easily purchased from Hornby or model shops.......HB

[Howbi]

That was close, Chris........... 😮..........HB

[Chrissaf]

Yes...very close....but you did add the bit I didn't mention......about the blanking plugs........Basher, Hattons of Liverpool do them by the way (click the Hattons link I have included). Bachman 36-057 for 8 pin and 36-058 for 21 pin. Bachmann plugs are just as good in Hornby locos too as they are standard pin-out arrangements. If it is a Loksound sound decoder fitted, it is more likely to be a 21 pin decoder, but some 21 pin decoders have a 21 pin to 8 pin harness, thus an 8 pin plug would be required. You would need to access the decoder to look at it and confirm the type. In the circumstances, it may be easier to just get the loco decoder reset to factory default, then you wouldn't need to take it apart.

.

Basher have a look at the YouTube video linked in the top post of this following posted topic. The down side is that it is 3 hours long, but it goes into every aspect of converting an Analogue DC to Digital DCC layout, including fitting decoders and all sorts of other things.

.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/an-introduction-to-dcc/?p=1

.

Forum name Basher conjures up an image of the Beano. Not sure whether to think 'Dennis the Menace' (a personal favourite of mine) or Plug.... 😆 😉

[31 basher]

Yes...very close....but you did add the bit I didn't mention......about the blanking plugs........Basher, Hattons of Liverpool do them by the way (click the Hattons link I have included). Bachman 36-057 for 8 pin and 36-058 for 21 pin. Bachmann plugs are just as good in Hornby locos too as they are standard pin-out arrangements. If it is a Loksound sound decoder fitted, it is more likely to be a 21 pin decoder, but some 21 pin decoders have a 21 pin to 8 pin harness, thus an 8 pin plug would be required. You would need to access the decoder to look at it and confirm the type. In the circumstances, it may be easier to just get the loco decoder reset to factory default, then you wouldn't need to take it apart.

.

Basher have a look at the YouTube video linked in the top post of this following posted topic. The down side is that it is 3 hours long, but it goes into every aspect of converting an Analogue DC to Digital DCC layout, including fitting decoders and all sorts of other things.

.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/an-introduction-to-dcc/?p=1

.

Forum name Basher conjures up an image of the Beano. Not sure whether to think 'Dennis the Menace' (a personal favourite of mine) or Plug.... 😆 😉

 

[31 basher]

 Thank you all. Yes sort of future proofing. I was bought up on 31's being from old Kings Cross BR staff. Many an enjoyable ride in 31 cabs. I collected every Lima 31 made and am doing same with Hornby (shame I can't find a comprehensive list). Cost of chips to convert all my locos at present putting me off but I can see advantages of DCC. Thanks,

31 basher.

[Chrissaf]

Basher, there is a product called "Sprog II v3" it comes complete with software and leads etc. The power supply is optional. It costs £45 plus £5 next day delivery plus optionally £10 for a recommended power supply. It is effectively a standalone DCC decoder programmer, although it has the ability to be more. This is far cheaper than a full blown DCC controller, but has full DCC decoder programming capabilities. You don't need to connect it to your layout to use it for programming your sound loco. Yes it is £50 delivered or £60 if you add the PSU, but that is very cheap for a DCC programmer. You could then use it to gain some experience of using DCC at the same time, as it is capable of running a single DCC loco and playing its sounds on a short length of dedicated track, a very small oval for example. It supports this function for testing purposes, but it is not designed to be a full blown layout controller.

.

http://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/

.

Search out "Sprog II" on YouTube to see it in use.

[Rog RJ]

Note that you need to connect the SPROG to a PC to be able to use it, either a desktop or a laptop.

[96RAF]

For comparison ESU have a decoder test rig that allows setting up and testing of a decoder before installation, which supports 8, 21, next18 and plus22 decoders at around the same price as the Sprog set, but it needs to be connected to your controller. ESU also have a sound decoder programmer at around twice that price that allows you to rework ESU Loksound decoders completely, but again you need a controller.

[31 basher]

 Thank you all for your advise. To save myself wasting money on temporary decoders perhaps it is time I gingerly took steps towards full DCC. I could then undo all the wiring currently installed for DC switches for the isolations, return loop, point motors etc. Can you recommend a suitable controller for an entry level idiot that would also do the reset I require for this 31 as a temporary measure to run it on DC until I've fitted more chips to more locos. My layout currently allows 3 locos to run at once but to double head so say 6 locos at once.  

Thanks, 31 basher.

[Fishmanoz]

Cheapest Hornby option, not including very basic Select which won't change you DC running setting, is Railmaster and eLink, but you need a PC/laptop as well to run that.  This is Hornby's cheapest combination yet fully functional DCC.  Some have setup problems but they are all soluble. 

[31 basher]

Got my DCC & Sound fitted 31 decoded yesterday to run on DC for the time being. It now takes a second or two to respond to start moving and is not particularly smooth. Top speed is low (not bothered about that as I don't want to run at full speed anyway). I have other DCC fitted locos that run normally but have never been fiddled with. Is this unusual performance normal after decoding, someone said it's the sound electronics which affects performance in DC, perhaps need disconnecting which I don't want to do.? Thanks.   31 basher  

[RDS]

@31 basher

I can't help keep thinking that your next purchase should be a DCC controller.

[Yelrow]

31 Basher, hi, if you have a laptop, Hattons are still selling Railmaster, reduced from £70, to £5. Buying this will enable you to change CVs, and play sound. john

[trainlover23]

31 Basher, hi, if you have a laptop, Hattons are still selling Railmaster, reduced from £70, to £5. Buying this will enable you to change CVs, and play sound. john

But you would have to buy an Elink for it to work. The Railmaster setup works with an Elite controller only. Stick with DC it is a lot lot lot more simple  

[Yelrow]

True, but secondhand elinks are about £20. john

[trainlover23]

True, but secondhand elinks are about £20. john

Which begs the Question WHY ? I think we can all guess the answer  

[RDS]

... Stick with DC it is a lot lot lot more simple ...

That is a matter of opinion and alright if you like controlling the Track and not the Trains.

I prefer to control theTrains, it seems far more realistic.

[Fishmanoz]

The reason eLinks are £20 is simple.  People are willing to pay this much for one, then combine it with a £5 copy of RM to have a very cheap way into a very capable DCC system.  And the people who upgraded to Elite with their RM are £20 better off too.  Satisfied customers alround. 

[trainlover23]

The reason eLinks are £20 is simple.  People are willing to pay this much for one, then combine it with a £5 copy of RM to have a very cheap way into a very capable DCC system.  And the people who upgraded to Elite with their RM are £20 better off too.  Satisfied customers alround. 

Why are they £20.00 in the first place? If they were any good they wouldn`t be around second hand for £20 would they ?

[96RAF]

Its nothing to do with it being any good or not, the problem with a second hand eLink is where did it come from - a train set with eLink controller and Railmaster, or a separate Railmaster DVD and eLink sale.

 

Knowing that the RM software licence is not legally or even actually transferable old owner to new owner, if you want to flog the eLink then you can't even give the RM licence away with the eLink, this means that the new owner has to buy a new licence**, hence the second hand value of the eLink becomes loose change.

 

** - until the Hattons 5GBP giveaway for RM this new licence option was not economical.

 

[Yelrow]

I have 2 spare Elinks, be happy to lend one for cost of Postage. john