The Captain90 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Using Peco electrofrog points on my layout. Ordered 11 PM1's from a supplier in UK but in error have been sent 4 PM4's. Only difference I can see is the PM4 has a spring to self latch the points.Rather than go through the hassle of sending the wrong ones back from Australia can the PM4 be successfully used on Peco electrofrog points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain90 Posted November 1, 2016 Author Share Posted November 1, 2016 Thanks Chris. Thought they would be but needed to be sure. Assume no modification needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 None..Personally, I think the PM4s are better than the PM1 all round because of their latching feature. Pity the supplier didn't substitute your whole order with PM4s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Amazing Chris, a (perfectly adequate) one word reply, a model of brevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain90 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 I have installed the first of the PM4's. When I give the command for the point to move the prod moves slightly but the point doesn't change. The point moves easily and freely when the rod is manouvered from underneath by hand but is tight and will not hold position when moved by hand at the top using the plastic slide part of the point. I have removed the PM4 and replaced with a PM1 (althought not yet wired up) and all fine when moved by hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Possibly too much spring tension for the point motor to overcome.I would suggest removing one of the springs, either from the point itself or the point motor. The point motor would be my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Assuming R8247 Accessory Decoders. This is another example of the weak performance of the integrated CDU within them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain90 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Chris, I need to purchase another Accessory Decoder. If I decide to change from R8247 what do you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 The one RDS uses (at least I think from memory it was RDS). It has a separate power input option. In essence you connect DCC to provide the control signals, but a separate 18 volts AC/DC input to fire the points via its internal CDU. The higher voltage of the additional power input significantly boosts the firing power of the decoder..I think from memory it was the ESU Switchpilot Accessory Decoder.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 No, anything but the Switchpilot, he cries, and curse on Hattons for ever suggesting it to be an equivalent to the 8247. I, like Chris, have no direct experience of the device, what I have is a lot of time invested in reading the manual and trying to help the many people who were unable to get this device operating. It isn't particularly difficult but the device is so capable and therefore has so many options that finding and using the correct option has been the problem. That is a very backhanded compliment and not a recommendation. Personally, I would stick to the simple learn mode decoders of which there are a few that have been covered here over the last couple of years. Probably the more popular of these are the DCC Concepts series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Yes Chris, it is me that uses the ESU SwitchPilot. I have 5 of them in use on my layout, controlling 32 sets of points and I think they are excellent. Very easy to Install, Set up and Use. The ones I have are very similar but not exactly the same as shown in the link provided above (I guess mine are v1 models). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Captain, Although like Fishy, I do like the DCC Concepts self learning decoders. I suggested the ESU Switchpilot because I felt it would be an easy way to resolve your PM4 point motor issue. Due to the significant extra power via the separate power supply for throwing points. I would be more swayed by the comments made by RDS as he is a user of them. As he says himself, probably the Version 1 rather than Version 2. One would like to assume that the Version 2 would be an improvement on the Version 1. If you did find any configuration difficulties, then I'm sure RDS would give you advice based on his previous posting history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain90 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Thanks for the guidance here everyone. Having thought more about this and he fact I have already purchased 4 Hornby R8247 decoders will have to, at least for now, stick with these and make them work the best I can.If my patience gets the better of me I may change them in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain90 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just a question whilst we are dealing with points and Hornby R8247 Decoders. Where I have 2 points that I want to change together I have wired one to a R8247 situated almost alongside the point and the other points decoder is about 2 metres further along the baseboard. I have wired them this way so when they are fired 2 decoders are used so to "spread the load". Would the long wire between the point motor and the decoder affect the performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Seriously doubt it.But a lot will depend on what wire size is used. The minimum size I recommend is 16/0.2mm equipment wire for all three wires to each solenoid point motor. If your motors are likely ever to be much over say 4-5Mtrs from the power source/supply consider increasing all wire sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain90 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Thanks Flashbang. The wires I am using are 24/0.2mm which is about the largest I can easily fit into the decoders sockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Captain90 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 Possibly too much spring tension for the point motor to overcome.I would suggest removing one of the springs, either from the point itself or the point motor. The point motor would be my choice.Thanks RJ. Removed spring from PM4 and all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Glad it helped. Thanks for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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