Controlling 2 DCC locos at the same time

[Matt123x]

I'm thinking of converting a DC layout to DCC. Currently the DC layout consists of 2 isolated loops (with various sidings), controlled by a Gaugemaster dual controller and my son and I like to control a loco each at the same time  (each of us using one dial on the Gaugemaster controller).

In the DCC layout we would also like to be able to control 2 locos at the same time. I naively thought the Hornby Elite would allow this but a recent comment that I saw on another forum suggests it can only operate one loco at a time, (which makes me wonder why it has 2 dials?).

So, my question is, what would be the cheapest controller that would allow me to operate 2 locos at the same time? At this stage I don't want to spend a great deal even if it means I will have to trade up to something more sophisticated in a year or two. 

I believe the basic Bachmann 36-500 EZ controller allows a companion controlller (36-510) to be connected to it but I'm not certain it allows 2 locos to be used at the same time and the companion controller seems to be out of stock everywhere. Are there any other reasonably cheap options?

[Chrissaf]

It is true, as you have identified, the Elite controller can only use one or other of the two dials at a time. The reason the Elite has two dials, is so that two locos from the available loco roster can be called up and pre-allocated to each dial control. You can then switch much faster between the two locos because you then don't have to go through the loco DCC address selection process that you have to do with most other hand held controllers from other brands.

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It is just a fact that all DCC controllers can only communicate to one loco at a time. The digital signal protocol sent to the track is serial.  However, if you can switch rapidly between multiple locos then you get the illusion of controlling more than one loco at a time.

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The Elite & the Select itself supports the connection of Hornby Select(s) to it as a walkabout controller. In fact up to 7 Select Walkabouts can be attached. As each Walkabout is a separate controller with a single dial, each Select can call up a different loco from the available roster. The DCC digital signals from the Select are sent to the attached Master Elite or Master Select via a R8266 cable to be processed. The Master controller effectively queues the individual commands received from the Select(s) chronologically (i.e in the order that they were received) merges them with any control signals being sent by the Master controller and then transmits those signals to the track serially in that order. Thus the illusion of simultaneous loco control is achieved.

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For more information regarding using a Select as an attached 'Walkabout Controller' refer to pages 20 to 23 of the Select 1.4 Manual - downloadable here from this site. Note the manual talks about a 'Select Master' controller. The 'Select Master' can also be an Elite controller. Two Selects R8213 operating in Master and Walkabout Slave will allow two locos to be controlled, one by each Select dial. Selects can be picked up relatively cheaply on the second-hand market. Either because a user has upgraded to a better quality controller (the Select does have limitations such as only being able to configure a very limited number of decoder CVs and can only be guaranteed to work with Hornby loco decoders) or because they bought a digital set that included a Select, but the user already has a DCC control system.

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An alternative way to control more than one loco simultaneously, is to add RailMaster software (PC required) to an Elite. You could use the software throttles in RailMaster whilst your son uses the dials on the Elite. The RailMaster software supports the display of multiple loco controllers (small throttles or up to two large ones with ProPack) on screen, thus it would be easy to control up to 3 locos simultaneously (or more using the small throttles). RailMaster is on special offer from Hattons at present and can be purchased for £5 (normal price is about £69).

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Note: RailMaster with an eLink does not provide any physical controller knob dials on the eLink track interface box. Neither does RailMaster support the direct connection of a Select. The Select does not have a USB port on it required to connect to a PC. For simultaneous dial control with RailMaster you would need an Elite.

[Bigskybirds]

Hi

I also wanted to do the same as yourself. I prefer to have independant control of each running locomotive as I do on my DC layout. The Elite provides two rotary controls as per Chrissaf excellent explanantion but you have to switch between the two since only one control can send signals at a time.

At the moment I use the elink which enables me to see on the PC screen what I have selected, I did purchase an Elite in the past week and had problems trying to connect to my PC and have now abandonded that idea..

Sadly I do not think you will not be able to replicate the DC setup of having one control for each active DC loop. I would be glad to hear otherwise.

[Yelrow]

Its  fairly simple, all you need, is an Elite, plus a select Walkabout. As Chris says, you can have up to 7. So in theory  8 locos could run at once. Granted you would need more people to control. I have an Elite, plus walkabout, and another on the horizon, hence dad, plus 2 childen, would be able to play at once. By placing my walkabout next to Elite, i can happily run 2 locos, at ant time. Have in fact been doing so for last hour. So, Matt, if you go down DCC route, its a doddle. john

[Matt123x]

Thanks for that extremely detailed and helpful reply Chris. It sounds as though 2 Select controllers will give me the effect of simultaneous control so I will give serious thought to this option. I don't really want to go down the Railmaster route at this stage

 

Thanks also Bigskybirds. 

 

Edit. Thanks also John, I'm glad to hear that.

 

[Yelrow]

Matt, look at ebay, for secondhand Elites, and selects.  The select  is an unpowered slave, in as much, that no transformer/ electrics needed. Forget the Walkabout bit, as all selects can become walkabouts. As people upgrade to Elites, many are sold  fairly cheaply on ebay, and you can send the select to Hornby, to update the Firmware, at a cost of £15. It is also not particularly necessary to update Elite. Both of mine are older versions, and perform perfectly.  Worth a look. john

[Matt123x]

Another problem I now foresee is which decoders to use. I have 3 DCC ready locos, a Hornby class 31 (8 pin), a Bachmann Tornado (21 pin) and a Bachmann 108 DMU (21 pin). I gather the Select can have compatibility issues with Bachmann decoders? Is anyone able to recommend a 21 pin decoder that will work in the Bachmann locos and be compatible with the Select (or a Hornby decoder that will work on the Bachmann locos)?

[Howbi]

@Matt123x...........As your 2 loops are isolated there is nothing to stop you keeping one as DC for the time being and controlling the other by DCC..........I would recommend you buy the Elite controller first as you will then be able to change and manage all the CVs in all the decoders as the Select is very limited..........you could then purchase the Select when funds allow.........in reply to your last post, the Elite should work with all your decoders..........Hornby do offer the Sapphire 21 pin which will work in the Bachmann locos and with the Select......HB

[Fishmanoz]

In line with your wish to keep costs down now and upgrade later, stick with the 2 Selects and use only the basic Hornby R8249 decoder in all 3 locos. This decoder is 8-pin so for the 2 Bachmann locos, also purchase a 21-8 pin conversion harness for each. This will be the cheapest and simplest solution without any compatibility issues as the Hornby decoders will be fine in the Bachmann locos and with the Select.

[Matt123x]

Many thanks Howbiman.

If I use an Elite, but then add a Select as a 'slave', would that still give me the Select's incompatibility problems, or does the fact it's being run from an Elite overcome these?

edit: thanks fishmanoz, i did wonder if that was a possibility.

[Fishmanoz]

No, it won't solve the Select compatibility but irrelevant if using the 8249 in all locos.

[Matt123x]

thanks, very helpful.

[Chrissaf]

There are many threads on the forum describing the considerations of running a Select as a Walkabout to an Elite. I usually use the term 'Lowest Common Denominator Rules' in my replies relating to them. There are basically two scenarios:

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Scenario 1 is that you can operate any loco DCC address in the fleet using the Elite but have a restriction as to which loco DCC addresses in your fleet can be operated by the Select. This could be useful if you wanted to restrict which locos that your son can control, maybe the cheaper models. See scenario 2 below for the loco DCC address restrictions. Give your more expensive models loco DCC addresses above 59 and your son could not control them with the Select.

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Scenario 2 is where you configure your whole fleet to have compatible DCC addresses for the Select's restricted range of DCC Address 01 to 59. Then as long as all your locos are in that restricted range, they can be operated by either the Select or Elite (the Lowest Common Denominator rules). Scenario 2 would, of course, apply if you had TWO Selects. One Master plus one Slave Walkabout.

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The other addressing restriction of the Select is Accessory Decoder addresses (i.e point motors). The Select only supports accessory addresses in the range 60 to 99. However there is a further complication regarding address 60. I wont go into the complication here as it is in the manuals, but basically to keep things simple you use DCC addresses 61 to 99 in groups of four, for accessories (i.e point motors). 61-64, 65-68, 69-72 etc. The Elite starts Accessory Decoder addressing at number 1.

[Yelrow]

Chris, before you would have a problem with the select, you would need more than 60 locos. I go up to 34, with no problem.. Poster wants his lad to control locos, so this would be no prob. He does not mention/ want his lad to control points. All mine are controlled from Elite. There is one on ebay for £98, and selects for £30. All he would then need is walkabout cable, and i have a source for them. john

[Matt123x]

thanks for the further info.

Yes, I don't think I would need to power accessories. All of my points are currently wired and powered from the Gaugemaster controller.

[Chrissaf]

Chris, before you would have a problem with the select, you would need more than 60 locos.............. john

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I don't disagree with you John. The OP asked for a statement of what restrictions might apply, I just provided the info as he requested.

[Yelrow]

Perish the thought Chris,  but as i use a walkabout, just expanded on personal experience. Be along time, if ever i reach 59, DCC locos. john

[RDS]

I find that the Select as a Walkabout to the Elite is an excellent way for my Grandchildren to be able to control their own Train.  I currently have one as a Walkabout and I would gladly go up to 3 Walkabout's, giving 4 separate controllers in total, that on my Layout, would still allow them to control their own Train.

[RDS]

@john_doman

Your post (22:54 on 20th Dec 2016) has been removed as active promotion of non Hornby Brands is not permitted on this Forum.

[96RAF]

@HFM

It would be better to strt  new topic to investigte your Elite vs PC connection issues.

Rob