Going Forward

[Ravens]

Hi All

I have been investigating two DCC control units, Hornby Elite with Railmaster or the Gaugemaster system. 

My main preference would be the Hornby setup as I really like the sound of the Railmaster system and what it does. Not sure as yet what I would require to purchase in order to achieve the best system possible. I have no problem in spending to get it right.

In order to learn more about these systems I have been looking over the Hornby forum site in order to avoid making costly mistakes.

I got concerned reading some posts re the long-term viability of Hornby and or the Railmaster system.

Chris seems to be a contact who answers a lot of questions and I hope is knowledgeable to advise me on things Hornby.

How strong and viable going forward are the brands before I spend that large amount of money o the DCC system. 

I have no wish to upsat anyone askin these questions, I just want to sped in the righ direction.

Can Railmaster work on the Ipad, if yes where can I read about this setup please.

Regards

Ravens

[WilliamDavid]

Although I have every confidence in Hornby's future, the Elite would still be usable if Hornby ceased to exist., as it is a standalone controller.

I'm not so sure about Railmaster, but maybe that would be ok too.

[walkingthedog]

Hornby is not going to disappear. 

[Chrissaf]

As this is a Hornby forum you are unlikely to get an unbiased view. Even if users in hindsight wished they had purchased a different brand controller, their hands are somewhat tied in openly recommending them.

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As WD says, the Elite functions just as well as a 'Standalone' controller as it does interfaced to RM. But even if the most pessimistic forum views were to prevail and RM became obsolete (not that I think it will), the Elite interfaces perfectly well with alternative other brand PC software such as JMRI (free open source) and BigBear (paid for) to name but two. There are others as well. Not so the eLink, which does not work with anything other than RM.

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Not sure as yet what I would require to purchase in order to achieve the best system possible. I have no problem in spending to get it right.

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If that statement really is your view, then I would be perhaps be looking at non Hornby controllers (but not Gaugemaster, well not for DCC anyway). To some, Hornby Elite and RM may look pricey. But to others they are considered mid priced controllers with mid price performance to match.

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I mentioned JMRI earlier. In comparison to JMRI, RM is far more user friendly and easier to set up. The built in Hornby loco database makes setting up a loco roster far easier, providing you don't have too many non Hornby locos. However, JMRI being open source is not affiliated to any one particular controller brand and works with just about everything (except Hornby eLink). Have a look at the JMRI website and see what DCC controller brands feature heavily on it. That will give you a clue as to what DCC Controller brands are favoured by actual users.

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Other brand systems are currently way ahead of Hornby in terms of loco detection and integrated automated control. RM however has a good existing 'run a program of events' capability that will only get better when Hornby launch 'Loco Detection' themselves (if they ever do). I would expect the Hornby LD system will be easier to master and set up than the currently available (expensive) systems that are heavily hardware driven. In other words the competitor systems needs loads of additional kit and interconnect wiring.

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Re iPad....if you download the RM installer from the link at the top of the forum RM section and run it. The installer, as well as installing a time limited trial version of RM, will also install all the PDF user guides. One of which relates to 'Hand Helds' such as the iPad.

[Fishmanoz]

See also my reply where you asked the same question under Wiring, just to confuse us.

[Ravens]

Hi Chris

Many thanks for the info above, I will look at the others as noted above.

Your first answer of course is correct - "hands tied" - I should have relised that - but I normally don't do forums

Elite being standalone - good to hear - also other software

Would one need the elink if using the Elite to work with RM - if its a silly ask - sorry

yes my comment is correct re no prob spending a little more in order to get it right.

Based on my limited knowledge Hornby looked to be in higher end of market, spending more within the Hornby setup is what I meat in geting it right - a re look at this aspect is required

My existing locos are Hornby and have placed a few more in my basket ready for purchase.

Other brands - more research required then

Will check out the Ipad info - I do have an old windows 8 pc I can use as a decdicated system - as I am a mac user.

Many Thanks for your advie & help

Ravens

[Ravens]

Hi

Railmaster Section now has a post - Going Forward

Ravens

[Fishmanoz]

We can't say too much about Gaugemaster on here, it being a Hornby forum.  On the Elite, it is a fully functional DCC control system to which can be added a number of Select controllers as walkabouts or it can be run with RM.

 

When using RM, everything is done from your computer screen and the Elite is just a conduit for the power and control signals from the computer to the track.  That said, you can at the same time use the Elite knobs and buttons so you effectively have dual control.  You can of course run RM with eLink, the difference being you are now entirely limited to the screen as eLink has no knobs or buttons, it's just an interface.  RM functions exactly the same with either.

 

You can only run RM on a Windows computer (that includes Windows emulation on a Mac).  However, having put RM on your laptop, you can then run the Handheld app on an iPad and this will allow you to control locos and change points etc.

 

There is a very simple way to find out more about both RM and the HH.  Just go to the top of the RM forum and download RM from the link and you can install as a trial version for free.  You don't need to have a layout or any connection to Elite or eLink to do this.  There are a number of pre-configured layouts you can call up and you can set up 2 locos to drive.  Then if you go to the Help screen, Latest News and scroll back to the first item, you'll find it tells you how to set up an iPad HH app, again as a trial. So you can get the look and feel of both before you lay out a penny.  You'll also find all the manuals for everything have been downloaded to your desktop from doing that.

[Chrissaf]

Would one need the elink if using the Elite to work with RM - if its a silly ask - sorry

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No you do not need an eLink if using an Elite with RM. Railmaster software R8144 on its own (effectively it is the license key you are paying for) can be currently purchased from Hattons of Liverpool for £5 (on special discounted offer) the normal retail price is nearer £70.

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Thus you could buy the Elite controller and ADD the Hattons £5 RM to it as a separate purchase. In other words you DON'T have to buy an eLink to get RailMaster.

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For users who started out buying RailMaster with eLink (perhaps as part of a set) and then upgraded to Elite at a later date. RailMaster does support using two controllers. The Elite for the main track and Locos and programming PLUS the eLink as a second controller interface to RM purely dedicated on a second DCC connection to operate accessory decoders. But for the majority of users, using both controllers together with RM just adds complexity with minimal benefit.

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PS - JMRI has a natively MAC version available.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi Ravens

 

There is a thread called, Does RailMaster have a future, in this forum, it is worth a read, in particular an encouraging reply from HRMS at this link...

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/16532/?p=4

 

Other members have quoted what is required all I would add here is... RM is a very affordable system and is ongoing, it has advanced big time in the last few years and Hornby have a lot more coming. They listen to our commments, at times encourage our comments, and have built in a lot of our requests into the system.

[Ravens]

PJ_model_trains

Many thanks for your post I will be happy to heck out

Ravens

[Bigskybirds]

 @ Ravens

 

Due to already having a very large DC setup with many locomotives I was unsure about using DCC. I started with the Elink with Railmaster and after initial setup problems I have found it to be very easy to use and the automated control with Railmaster is excellent.

 

I then decided I would like a controller with a rotary control and because I had Railmaster I chose the Elite DCC controller. My experience could have been better and with the help of many from this forum I managed to sort out some of the issues. Despite the cost of the Elite I had one with a faulty USB port and another with a faulty keypad. In the end I managed to get one up and running but then hit another issue with the Elite and that was the unobtainable message when trying to read and setup locomotive CV's. This was a stumbling block because I was in the process of converting locomotives and could only do it with my Elink. In the end I decided to use the GM Prodigy controller and computer interface which can also be setup to use JMRI with a PC and as yet it has not failed to program a single decoder. I still have my Elink and have not had the same issues as with the Elite. I have a DPDT switch so I can switch to the Elink to use Railmaster then switch back to the GM.

 

I would recommend the Elink with Railmaster and a 4 amp power supply but I am sure others would disagree, you have to work out what is best for you.

[Ravens]

Hi 

Bigskybirds

Very good and honest info, in order to understand what you are currently using (bieng a DCC numptie) you seem to have,

Railmaster working with the Elite - (which is on my list of options)

GM as the base control unit / JMRI software / working on a PC

Whats a DPDT swith (sorry may be a silly question) how does that work- I very much like the Railmaster as it seems to have a good interface combined with ease of use ? Using the Elink if I am correct would eliminate the need for the Elite ?

Your last point re Elink / Railmaster sounds good but why a 4am power (is that the max pwer it can work on)

I have been checking these other options reading stuff on other forms in order to make a good decision, it is fair to say there is good and bad in most of them. One does not have to use PC software to operate a layout and I would not want to use a PC only, I would like the best of both worlds, yes cake with cream, jam and eat it. I am sure this is more than possibile. As time is not an issue for me just now so I can look around and investigate ombined with visiting various experts.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Kind Regards

Ravens - Thanks

[Bigskybirds]

 @Ravens

 

My current set up is

 

GM Prodigy with computer interface for day to day running and programming of my DCC system and to enable me to run my layout without the PC.

 

Elink with Railmaster using a 4 amp supply to specifically use the automated running function of railmaster.

 

I switch between them using a Dual Pole Dual Throw switch so only one controller is connected at any one time. The reason I use a 4 amp supply with the Elink is to ensure I have enough power to run 6 trains continuously. I had an issue using the standard 1 amp Elink supply tripping out when a train went over a point and Hornby recommended the 4 amp supply to solve that problem which it did. They said it was more tolerent to receiving a short circuit from the track which sometimes occurs when a train crosses a point.

[Yelrow]

Big sky, so you dont use an Elite now, at all. I am the opposite, dont use the Elink. Do all my cvs through RM, with Elite, which  also runs Walhabout Select. john

[Bigskybirds]

@yelrow

 

There was not much point in the Elite for me since it would not consistently read or write CV,s to programme decoders and since others on the forum had a similar issue I did not want to continue to use it.  I was fed up seeing the unobtainable message and that was with some Hornby decoders. 

[Yelrow]

Never had any of that, but to be fair, only have Hornby and Bachmann decoders. You are far more into loco conversion, than i will ever be, as not prepared to alter any DC loco. The times i have read cvs, with RM/ Elite, as i have a spare one, has been fine.  john

[Ravens]

bigskybirds

Great info, thanks, I have been reading info on this forum under the heading Elink Confusion.

Some good info in there also for someone like me who is unsure on what DCC to use

My thoughts - could be complete overkill but like your idea of twin units - Like the idea of that switch between two controlers - also like Railmaster

I like your setup idea - best of both worlds to me and tha is what I am trying to achieve

Elink with Railmaster using a 4 amp supply to specifically use the automated running function of railmaster.

Which Control unit - Elite or DCC02 Advance 2 or Other ? - would you also use a 4am power supply to these units.

I will contune to use Hornby, my existing track / points etc are Hornby, all my loco"s are Hornby

Other setp requirements / suggestions as to what to use are welcome

Ops - meant to include - R8247 booster for lights etc is this required ??

Kind Regads

Ravens

 

[Ravens]

Hi

Yelrow

You are more than welcome to answer back - did not see your post while typing etc.

Sorry

Ravens

[Bigskybirds]

@Ravens

 

I have three main running tracks and I can switch between DC and DCC as well as different controllers. I can even run both DC and DCC on the same layout at the same time using different running tracks. They are all switchable.  😀

[Chrissaf]

Ops - meant to include - R8247 booster for lights etc is this required ??

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Some rather unusual strange use of terminology there Ravens. R8247 is an Accessory Decoder a Booster has a completely different meaning connotation. Perhaps if you explained what type of lights you are referring to.....signal lights, building interior lights, street lights etc. We could answer your question more directly without digressing off into the unknown.

[Ravens]

Hi Chrissaf

Sorry

Yes all accessory lights as you have litsted in your post and any other asseccory lights I have not thought of yet or even seen.

Excluding loco stuff as I would have thought the decoder inside the loco would handle that - if not please advise.

How would one wire one of those accesory decoders - central point for X No of connections ?

Ravens & electrics don't fit well together, one of my friends is the spark of the opeation, he has a keen interest in my layout.

"Eevery Day Is A School Day - Always Learning"

Feedback is the breakfast of champions

He He

Regads

Ravens

[Ravens]

bigskybirds

that sounds like something else, in comparision to what I am tyrying to learn and achieve, I welcome your coments, knowledge and advice.

Ravens 

[Bigskybirds]

 @Ravens

 

If this link works you can see DCC running on my layout and the control panel to switch the three tracks and the GM or Elink.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqhXf6RMPSM

[Chrissaf]

Excluding loco stuff as I would have thought the decoder inside the loco would handle that - if not please advise.

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Anything inside the loco would normally be controlled by the loco decoder function outputs. Some people fit carriage lights (strips of LEDs) to the inside roof of their passenger coaches. These usually get their power directly from the DCC track via custom installed pickups on the wheels of the coach (on DCC coach lighting installed this way will be on all the time). It is rare to add a decoder to a passenger coach to turn lighting on and off, but it is doable. Kits for DIY installation are sold on ebay.....search "coach lighting".

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How would one wire one of those accessory decoders - central point for X No of connections ?

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It will depend upon the Accessory Decoder being used. Assuming for the present the Hornby R8247. This Accessory Decoder is primarily a solenoid point motor decoder, thus the output, when triggered is a CDU generated pulse of current. The individual ports of the R8247 can be configured for always on. This would be OK to use on a basic LED Dual Aspect Signal (Red / Green). It can't do 3 & 4 Aspect signals.

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I hear you thinking.....ah....always on......hmmm......I can use that to light up all my LED street lighting and Station Platform lights.

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Unfortunately it is not that simple. The current output of the R8247 when configured for 'always on' is quite limited. It was designed to operate a single signal, not a layout full of lighting. This very scenario has been discussed in a recent post on this forum. Off hand, I can't find the post in question to link to.

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Most recommend controlling your layout lighting using a dedicated 12 volt DC power supply perhaps with manual switches to turn them on and off. If you really insist that you want to DCC control them. Then the most effective option is to add a relay to the output of the Accessory Decoder that can then use the relay contacts to switch a much higher current operating the various circuits (if you have more than one lighting circuit) controlling your layout lights. If you use a dual coil latching relay then you can leave the Accessory Decoder configured for 'pulse' output. Single coil latching relays are NOT suitable.

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However, if you recall. I gave you a link recently in another post for an ebay seller making his own Accessory Decoders, one of which was a decoder with four relay outputs. This would be ideal for switching layout lighting and other layout accessories on and off under DCC control. Remember, you will need a separate 12 vdc power supply to do this. I also gave a link for a range of cheap high current 12 vdc Laptop power supplies ideal for this use.

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Search this forum for post titles containing the word "Lighting". There are loads, containing most of what I have just written here but in more detail. One or other of them will contain the product links I have mentioned