RM v1.65 Available

[Chrissaf]

AusMod (Norm), if you can, to be 100% sure of proving the fault into your current ISP's network. See if you can take your router as well to connect to your mates ISP. If both your router AND your laptop work, then that is 100% proof of the fault not being with your equipment. Of course, you would have to put your mates ISP settings into your router.

[AusMod]

 Thanks Chris, that's a good idea, I'll see if we can do it.

 

One by-product of this problem is that RM will not connect to the internet, so I can't receive auto updates or register the software if I need too. At the moment it's running ok, but for the future I think a change of ISP will solve all.

Norm

[Fishmanoz]

Given your other problems, you may be the 1% but 99% of internet connection problems with RM are AV related.  Look at the AV manual on your desktop and also look at the AV content on AC's separate site at the top of the forum.

[AusMod]

 AC and Chris,

This afternoon I took my laptop and modem/router to a friends home.The first test was to use my laptop to attempt the download using my friends modem/router over wifi. The result was instant success!!

 

The second test was to use my laptop and my modem/router connecting to my friends ISP over a wired connection. The result was also instant success!!

 

I guess my problem now will be to convince my ISP that there is a problem at their end. I feel this will be difficult, but I have been with them for 13 years, so I think I deserve a fair hearing.

 

I look forward to reading what you think.

 

Regards

Norm

[Chrissaf]

Norm,

Well at least it proves 100% the fault is within the ISPs domain. Although a very long winded fault finding process, the methodical approach AC and I gave to diagnostics and testing that has been followed through from the very first reply has systematically ruled out successive possible faults until only one was left.....the ISP. Your final testing is conclusive.

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Not knowing exactly how your ISP provides your broadband services it is hard to suggest what to suggest to them. Unfortunately as you have found out, and I too have experienced at my end. The 'help desk' agents are NOT engineers, they are just prepared script followers, switch this off, turn this on, press button B etc. They are fine (relatively) if you have an 'all or nothing' fault. The last mile line is down for example. But these type of obscure faults need a proper 'special faults' engineer to investigate. Invariably the ISP doesn't own the network, they rent the service from the local in country TELCO operator (the ISP and the TELCO may even be owned by the same parent company, but have an internal charging structure for services). Thus, each time they invoke 'special engineer' investigation there is an internal charge to pay for their time (I used to work for a TELCO). This is one reason why it is so difficult persuading the ISP agent to escalate the fault.

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The chances are there is a corrupted 'cache' in one of the network edge components servicing your particular local line. This may be a port card in a larger multi-card router. Or more likely a port card in a ISO Layer 3 switch. Layer 3 switches are cheaper than routers for an ISP and allow higher density connection of customer lines. The difficulty that arises is that as a shared bit of kit, other unaffected customers can have their service disrupted whilst an engineer is working on the parts of the kit that your line is attached to.

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Probably at some future instant in time, the fault will clear. Invariably as a result of an overnight software update to the equipment providing your particular service. The update involving a 'reboot' of the kit. This doesn't help you though, as it may be years before such an upgrade might be undertaken.

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I had an issue with a copper based broadband line that my ISP (help desk agents) would not take at all seriously and investigate. In the end I changed from a copper to a fibre based broadband service. Although it was from the same ISP, the change of kit in the TELCO domain used to provide the service, completely cleared the issue I was experiencing. I obviously don't know what types of services your ISP provides to you in OZ, but maybe something similar to my change of service type experience could be investigated. Or if you can, and it it is financially reasonable, move to the ISP your mate is using.

[Augustus Caesar]

@AusMod

 

While Chris gives a very good possible reason for the issue maybe being related to edge components I am more inclined (without prejudice Chris 😉) to add another possibility.

 

There is a chance that the ISP's own host provider simply hasn't set their DNS resolution properly. If that isn't set (I won't go into detail as to how this works because this is readily available across the net) correctly then the page/s you find are not available at one time will never be available until the protocol is correctly fixed at the host's end.

 

Your broadband service is provided by an ISP (Internet Service Provider as we all know) and their own webspace is either hosted on their servers or they buy space on third party servers (a web hosting company in other words) and it is here where the issue you are having may be causing the fault.

 

The reasoning behind this is deep and, again, I won't go into detail becasue I think with what you have now, a resolution or proof of a service not fit for purpose, you can make an informed choice as to the next step. This is almost certainly going to be a new ISP. Keep in mind that on rare (very rare) occasions exchanges can also cause these issues. These usually are corrected by new boards being placed in the exchange box as the copper degrades in older systems... especially here in the UK. This, however, is very unlikely the cause of your problem.

 

I'm so happy myself and Chris (without prejudice to others) have been able to guide you through and get this sorted to this extent so far for you. When your situation is FINALLY solved and all is working from home do let us know what you did with your current ISP... but nothing naughty mind you :-)

 

Routers, with no moving parts, very rarely go wrong and last for many many years with care.

[Chrissaf]

Just for clarity. The reason I was suggesting an edge component. Is that Norm did say that the first time he contacted his ISP's help-desk agents. They stated that they were able to access the errored web page from their help-desk. It would be assumed that the bulk of the infrastructure that they were using was common to Norm's service as well. The ISP 'help-desk' however would not be accessing the errored web site via Norm's network edge components. However, AC's alternative explanation is as good as anybody's.

[AusMod]

 AC and Chris, thanks for your advice. I'm no technical expert but the way I understand things is that my ISP has their own equipment at my local exchange and I connect to the internet via copper wires to that exchange. There have been problems in the past due to the age of the copper network. However I don't think this is my problem now, as I live in a new suburb, with new wiring.

 

In the past I have contacted my ISP with minor problems and usually they have "reset the port". I'm not sure what this means but I'll request they do that and see what happens. I'm waiting until this afternoon to contact them as South Africa is 6 hous behind Western Australia timewise. If the first contact is not helpful I'll request to speak to a supervisor.

 

Changing to another ISP is a last resort. I've made inquiries and it would cost a lot more than I pay now. I retired about 10 years ago and do need to watch where the $$$'s go 😀

 

I'll post the result after talking to the ISP.

Norm

[RDS]

 ... but I'll request they do that ...

 

In a situation like this, I would normally explain the problem to them and see what they say, because the person you speak to this time may be familiar with the problem, or may have more knowledge etc. than the last person you spoke to and therefore may suggest a more long term solution.

 

If on the other hand, they don't know what to do you can then say, "I think the last time, the port was reset".  I adopt this stance so that what they do is their suggestion, rather than being your fault if the action you suggest does not work.

 

[AusMod]

 Thanks RDS....Good advice and I'll follow your suggestion. Also I've always found it pays to be polite if I want someone to help, rather than getting angry with them.

Norm

[AusMod]

 Well guys it looks like we've come to the sad end of this saga!

 

This afternoon I was at last able to talk to my ISP's customer support. We spent nearly an hour on this problem. The support guy took control of my computer and tried various settings, most of which I had already tried.

 

To cut a long story short, the end result was that my problem was beyond the scope of their support, and there was nothing more they could do. I asked him to escallate the problem, but he said it would just be rejected. He seemed to know what he was doing and said he'd never come across this problem before.

 

Not sure what I can do to take this any further. I'll think about it overnight. I may just have to accept the situation and each time there is an RM update I'll have to take the laptop to my friends home and download it there.

 

I'm not sure if this will stop me from registering or deregistering the software, guess I'll see what happens.

 

I'd like to express my heartfelt thanks to all of you who contributed suggestions and comments on my problem, especially AC and Chris. 😀 😀

 

Norm

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

Norm, this appears to be an exceptional circumstance.  We are able to perform manual activations and deactivations for you by remotely logging in to your computer.

 

If you want a 'second opinion' and have us log in and see what we can do just email us.

[Chrissaf]

Norm,

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I would definitely take up HRMS's offer of a 'second opinion'. Initially I would use the RM inbuilt 'support request' feature (RM Help Window) to try contacting them. The reason being, is if that support request gets through then you can be fairly sure that 'deactivation & activation' requests will get through too. If the integral  'support request' doesn't get through you will know straight away as RM will report with an error message.

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If you have to contact HRMS via normal e-mail instead, then the correct mail address is support@rail-master.com

[Fishmanoz]

And Jorm, I think you will find activation and emails to be separate to the download experience.

[Augustus Caesar]

@Norm (AusMod)

One thing you have said slightly concerns me from an ISP point of view.

You said the ISP often has to 'reset the port'. This would invariably, also from you said, seem to fix past issues.

This leads me to suspect that the equipment they are using is not exactly top notch standard and even if it is it is odd that resetting ports can come up as often as it is apparently doing so.

It is an issue that an ISP shouldn't need to do very much at all. If your living area has been newly built up and new copper wiring used for the exchanges etc. then that will improve the signal but not mean a wholeheartedly trouble free service.

Resetting the port is most likely their ports for either 80 or 8080 (the former is default - as it is your default port on your own system to connect to the outside world) as it is probably getting bogged down with too little bandwidth being available for the services the ISP give out to the public.

It stands to reason that something will eventually give and having to reset the ports ultimately means their server ports or their host provider's server ports. The busier that ISP is, or the host is for that matter, then hosting space on their servers will be shared with business and public alike unless dedicated servers are used by business at more expense (much more!). This means the busier and more popular ISP's or host providers have to have better and bigger space on their servers to cope with demand.

If that doesn't happen and they penny pinch then things like your issue will inevitabely begin to occur. Resetting the ports can merely reset DNS pointers - or clear cache from their servers to attempt to make more space.

So I would be wondering if this is the case... maybe, maybe not. But it does seem to suggest something of that ilk from what you tell us they've done in the past.

[AusMod]

 AC, I my be wrong, but I think the resetting of ports by the ISP is used as an attempt to demonstrate to the user (me) that they are in fact doing something. In the past I've never know resetting the port to solve my problem....It's always been something else that fixed it. On this occasion they were at a complete loss as to what was causing the problem and the easiest way for them to handle the situation was to say it was beyond the scope of their support service! In other words I feel I've been dumped ☹️

 

I will be taking up HRMS's offer to connect to my laptop and see if they find anything wrong.

 

I've been with my current ISP for 13 years. I've been looking at changing to Telstra, which is like your British Telecom. Trouble is they cost a heap of dollars for even a basic connection.

Norm

 

[Fishmanoz]

IiNet for me, hope that's not the one which has dumped you.

[Augustus Caesar]

@AusMod

Yeah, I assumed as much from your text. I was generalising where some other members may be able to relate to your experience and offering examples of what else could go wrong or what ISP's or host providers can do to fix stuff.

Resetting ports is a favourite because they assume the person on the end of the line making the call is dumb enough not to know how to fix the issue and therfore can be blinded by tech speak.

However, I do try and qualify any answer I give on ere in that if I don't know then I don't guess. Soetimes I can be a little technical but it can often lead to clues for the member to take another step.

Let's see if HRMS can advise or do something a little different simply because of remote connection to your PC. Let us know...

[Augustus Caesar]

One thing I have noted whilst downloading the latest update of RM from the link on this sub-forum in Firefox is where the browser offers up the time remaining for the download...

 

...in this case it doesn't. It states Unknown time remaining. Which makes me wonder if there is a negotiation problem between the two ISP's/hosts when the link is connected to?

Odd behaviour. The time should always be shown and pretty accurate really. It won't be a browser specific issue because the browser doesn't make the connection.

[AusMod]

 Fishy, you are correct. It is iinet, sorry. They are ok until something goes wrong 😀

 

AC, I may be clutching at straws but I hope you are on to something with your last post about the time. I have emailed HRMS and I'm waiting to hear back.

[Fishmanoz]

Well I had no problem downloading the update via iiNet from the East coast. And must be long time since I used their phone up Support as it was coming from NZ when I did.  They were always awake well before the Aust based from Perth.

[Augustus Caesar]

@AusMod

Ah... OK... interesting. Let us know what they say of course.

[AusMod]

 AC Here's the latest.

 

After contacting HRMS we found there wasn't a lot they could. The error was preventing me from downloading AeroAdmin from their website. To cut a long story short, they came to the conclusion that my ISP was somehow blocking me from accessing rail-master.com.

 

So...back to another phone call to my ISP's support. This time I was lucky enough to have a guy who seemed really interested in the problem. He has passed the details to the "back room guys" to see if they can come up with a solution...here's hoping. He said I should hear back from them tomorreow (Sunday Oz time).

 

Without access to the RM website I'm a bit bothered that I can't receive RM updates or register/deregister the software. I've stressed to my ISP that it is essential I access the website.  Here the problem rests until tomorrow  I'll keep you posted.

Norm

[AusMod]

 Guys here is the latest update on my great saga.

 

This evening, West Australian time, HRMS logged onto the laptop I use for running my rail layout. After trying various things (not all of which I understood), he finally proved the problem lay with my ISP's DNS server. When he changed to the Google server (8.8.8.8) away we went, straight into the RailMaster web site. I can now run RailMaster with internet access, and download any updates I may need.

 

After three weeks I am so releived, and now I'll be making another phone call to my ISP to tell them to check their servers.

 

Thank you to all you guys who contributed to this and a really big THANK YOU to HRMS. Their commitment to RM and their customers is truely amazing. What I was wondering was when do they ever sleep? 😀 😀

Norm

[96RAF]

What a result.

All credit to HRMS and to Ausmod for persevering with what seemed like an insurmountable problem due to his numpty ISP.