nevermore Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 ok so im getting into the DCC thing & it can be pretty confusing to a newbieIm looking at adding a sound decoder to the power unit of the alstom & just getting a basic decoder for the rear non powered unit for lights.How do you programme the decoders so the front & rear units works under one address ?I dont want to buy a paired set of sound decoders as they would be £220 would probably get the sapphire or the R8249 for rear unit.any help much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The R8249 is perfectly adequate for the dummy car. Sapphire would be OTT imho. To program them to the same address put the powered car and the dummy car on the programming track at the same time. Both units should accept the same address. Get the dummy car set up first, ignoring the powered car. Then remove the dummy car and make any adjustments needed to the powered car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just to add my tuppence worth to Rog's advice. From interest what controller do you have as some are limited in extent as to what they can program but mostly every controller can at least change a basic address. The reason for doing both at once is most controllers need to see a load from a motor before they can program a dummy decoder, hence fooling the system is possible by having both on track at once, then as Rog says you can do any extra fiddling with the power car after the dummy is addressed.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The other way - a bit more time-consuming - is to put the trailing dummy car decoder into the power car socket, programme that, then transfer it, and then put the sound decoder in and programme that - with the same i/d number, of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermore Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just to add my tuppence worth to Rog's advice. From interest what controller do you have as some are limited in extent as to what they can program but mostly every controller can at least change a basic address. The reason for doing both at once is most controllers need to see a load from a motor before they can program a dummy decoder, hence fooling the system is possible by having both on track at once, then as Rog says you can do any extra fiddling with the power car after the dummy is addressed.RobHey rob i will be using the ez dynamis controller for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermore Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thanks for all the tips guys just wish hornby would have announced this train as one of the upcoming TTS decoders would have been easier & cheaper 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Rob, not sure it's the controller that can't handle programming without a motor load, though it was a decoder limitation. Not sure how the controller could even tell if there is a motor when the loco is stationery, and only indirectly via current drawn when moving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 @fishyAccording to NMRA when programming the decoder can send a pulse of current to the motor which the controller 'sees' and accepts as an acknowledgement of its enquiry or instruction to the decoder. I had been trying to plot this pulse on the 'scope but had to send the current clamp back which I had on loan, so I'm looking at another way to show it on screen.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Thanks Rob, learn something new every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hang on, on second thoughts - given the motor connections must be isolated from the track input, how can the controller see a pulse sent to the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I don't know how the ack pulse is returned but it is. See http://www.dccwiki.com/Decoder_Programming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hang on, on second thoughts - given the motor connections must be isolated from the track input, how can the controller see a pulse sent to the motor? This quote from the Standards:D: Decoder Acknowledgment MechanismService Mode operations provide for an acknowledgment mechanism from the decoder to the command station/programmer. Acknowledgment refers to the ability of the Digital Decoder to respond to a Service Mode instruction issued by a Programmer. Service Mode instructions can be executed regardless of whether or not the acknowledgment mechanism is detected by the command station/programmer. Two Acknowledgment mechanisms are available: -Basic Acknowledgment -Advanced Acknowledgment Digital Decoders may provide either form of acknowledgment. Basic Acknowledgment Basic acknowledgment is defined by the Digital Decoder providing an increased load (positive-delta) on the programming track of at least 60 mA for 6 ms +/-1 ms. It is permissible to provide this increased load by applying power to the motor or other similar device controlled by the Digital Decoder.Advanced Acknowledgment See-S-9.3.1 (discontinued) and S-9.3.2 (which really gets down in the weeds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjb1961 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hi ,,,,would the class 43 virgin east coast HST R3390TTS be suitable ,they are sometimes advertised on eBay for @ £110 for the pair ,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Simple huh, feed forward to feed back. Thanks Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 @mjbDeja-vuWe covered this or similar recently......HST is a diesel and Pendo is an electric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjb1961 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 @mjbDeja-vuWe covered this or similar recently......HST is a diesel and Pendo is an electric.I didn't know that ,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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