Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Hello AllMy J52 0-6-0 Tank DCC fitted suddenly stopped in mid track and I have been unable to get a peep out of it since. No response to reprogramming (the controller kept flashing 9 times) or 9v battery applied to the wheels. With body off I have checked for obstructions, debris etc but all clear seemingly. The armature revolves freely with finger pressure. No sign of any burning.Could the decoder have burnt out or is it the Ringfield type 7M motor with which this loco is said to be fitted ? I bought the loco used, DCC-fitted so I do not know what decoder it is, which is encased in a clear plastic envelope if that gives any clue.Any advice would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Does it have a plugged in decoder chip or is it hardwired? If plugged in can you swap the chip for another? No loose wires? R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 If you attach wires to the 9v battery, then apply the wires directly across the motor terminals with the body off, then that could indicate whether motor or decoder is faulty. To be doubly sure disconnect one of the decoder motor wires first, just in case decoder motor output is short circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Thanks Gentlemen. The decoder is hard wired, no socket.I will try the measures suggested by Chris and get back to you. Luckily I have just bought a simple soldering iron ! 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 No loose wires, Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 HB I'm pretty sure the loco was not a factory-fitted DCC model. No marking to that effect. I have a horrible feeling that the motor has failed, but we'll see. A pity as it was running very well and it's a doubtful case for a new motor even if that is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Have a look at service sheet 139A on Hornbyguide.com. It seems the motor is not a ringfield if this is the same J52 as yours Jimbo. The service sheet says the motor has a 500 hour life but the brushes are not replaceable.http://hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=74http://hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=116however...The motor shown is X1846 / M2209 but Peters Spares have a sub X8202 for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjb1961 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Hi.,,,,,About a year ago my dmu class 101 dcc fitted just stopped dead on the track,don't know why ,and it was a beautiful running dmu ,I was quite upset by it actually ,,,anyway I removed the body checked everything and like yourself nothing stood out to show that is the problem ,I thought it was the decoder ,while tinkering with it and applying wires from my controller it started going again and has been its normal self ever since ,I know this won't help you too much but don't write off the decoder just yet ,,,if you can ,do the checks as advised above posts ,try and get the motor to turn in DC so you know for sure the motor is ok or not ,,,hope you work it out ,,,,,,mjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Have a look at service sheet 139A on Hornbyguide.com. It seems the motor is not a ringfield if this is the same J52 as yours Jimbo. The service sheet says the motor has a 500 hour life but the brushes are not replaceable.http://hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=74http://hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=116however...The motor shown is X1846 / M2209 but Peters Spares have a sub X8202 for it.Many thanks, Rob, but I think it is a different loco. Hornby no. is R504 and I have attached a photo to remove all doubt. Haven't had time yet to do the tests Chris/media/tinymce_upload/6710fbdb423ea699d5ca1bcc5bbed446.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/5a527c5a247594bfba449d2b8576b923.JPG suggested but will try to do tomorrow.I don't think the chip is X9659 but you can doubtless confirm from the appearance.(But irrelevant anyway ? 😀All the best.Jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Thanks mjb. I will keep on trying.Rob, I have replied to you post but with photos so needs moderating. Thanks for all your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Never apply power to the motor for testing unless you have disconnected the decoder connections from it or you are almost certain to damage the decoder. If it's a plug in decoder then simply unplug the decoder before applying power to the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Rog is quite right, and Chris said it too. And as you've already told us it's hard wired not plugged, you have to unsolder to test. You've already told us it won't work with a battery on the wheels, so there is something wrong between the track and the motor, so the possibilities are first that a connection is broken between wheels and the decoder (you could test by connecting your battery to decoder red and black input wires and see if you get a respons), or the decoder is broken ( you are about to test that by putting the battery across the motor, but this will only be conclusive if you've tested across the decoder input first as I described), or finally the motor is broken, which you'll know if you get no response to the battery on its connections. So my process as described allows you to fault find right along the connection from track all the way to the motor. Let us know how you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 That pickup contact on the outside of the wheel is obviously wrong and should be in contact with the back of the wheel. That could be the cause of your problem if it's levering the other end away from the wheel back but how the spring came to be on the outside of the wheel rim is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 From the pictures service sheet 139 seems to be the correct one...therefore all the words relative to changing the motor itself apply. See here http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=4926 which shows the same loco number... I would desolder the wires connected to the motor terminals and check it runs on a battery, then fix the pickups and check the standard decoder connections, i..e. Red and black to the track, orange and grey the other way (to the motor). Also from the pictures it looks as if the far side wheel pickup is via the chassis i.e. that tag secured by a screw on top of the chassis block, otherwise all else is straight foward. In fact if you look at that service sheet you will see the pickup on that side contacts directly with the motor.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks Roger. I have replaced the pickup contact in the correct position. It went very easily, no drama. Unfortunately it has made no difference when testing with a 9v battery. So I will have to do the tests Chris suggested.The Little Controller has just reported a small puff of smoke had come from the funnel, which I hadn't realised before. (No discernable heat however ). Sounds ominous. I wonder if a fried decoder would do that ? And is the motor a Ringfield or not and repairable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Definitely not a ringfield jImbo its an M7 framed motor see service sheet 139 per my post above.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks Rob. The only Service Sheets I can get start at no. 200. I am puzzled. How can I get 139A please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I have a couple of questions from your photos. Towards the left hand end of the motor at the top, there is a grey wire that looks like it is unattached. Is that the case, and where does it come from? Then the purple wire soldered to the tag at the right hand end - where does it come from. i can see the red decoder wire is correctly connected to the near pickups but I can't see that decoder black is connected to the pickups on the other side, or to chassis if that is where the other track connection comes via the wheels, axles and chassis. I can also see that decoder orange is correctly connected to one motor connection but I can't see where decoder grey is connected to the other side of the motor? I think if you check out the things in my questions and make them correct, you may be up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 The only Service Sheets I can get start at no. 200. I am puzzled. How can I get 139A please ?.From these two web sites:http://www.lendonsmodelshop.co.uk/index.asp?button=button2&servicesheets=nonehttp://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_menu.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 OK Chris. Got it and printed out. Thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Those links I gave above that also show in your post with the pictures take you to the instructions for fettling the motor.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 .........there is a grey wire that looks like it is unattached. Is that the case, and where does it come from? Then the purple wire soldered to the tag at the right hand end..........Some close ups to provide clarity. The grey wire goes into a sleeve - see image 1 plus the purple wire is not soldered to any tag that is visible - image 2..Jimbo did state first post on first page that the loco had been working normally then suddenly stopped for no reason. Thus, mis-wiring is unlikely to be the issue.......a broken wire maybe....but a mis-placed wire probably not../media/tinymce_upload/1b7d98f492acd84a030193ab236528e1.jpg./media/tinymce_upload/9a4fa61de1911cf21118840c834095fc.jpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Purple should be the flying lead for F2 so probably not connected anyway just tucked away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I know decoder purple has no purpose in this setup, hence my asking him to check it. And thanks Chris, that grey arrangement wasn't at all obvious on the iPad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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