Adding new loco

[Guest]

It is a pity the Select does not have a separate programming output. Ideally, what you want is a spare bit of track that is just longer than your longest loco. Then disconnect your Select from your normal track layout and connect it to this spare bit of track instead. Now put your locos 'one at a time' onto the spare track piece and go through the 'configuring DCC address' Select process for each loco, giving each loco a new unique address (or just reinstate the old addresses as were, before you overwrote them). Programming loco configurations on a separate track piece eliminates the possibility of the error that you have just experienced.

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Basically, as you didn't remove the existing locos from the track, they have most likely all been configured with whatever address you were trying to configure the new loco with.

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This is because the programming data that comes out of the Select, is a broadcast to whatever DCC decoder is connected to it and is within electronic earshot of the Select controller. This includes any Accessory Decoders that might also be connected to your track layout. Thus all decoders that can hear this electronic digital data configuration broadcast will respond to it.

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This digital DCC broadcast  isn't an issue when you are just controlling a DCC device as the digital data signal contains the DCC address for the device the data is meant for within the broadcast data. All the decoders can hear these data messages, but only the device with that unique DCC address configured in it responds to it. Programming configuration DCC data on the other hand doesn't contain this unique DCC address** so all the DCC decoders think that the configuration data is meant for them and respond to it accordingly. They know no different.

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Note** unless that is you are using something called 'programming on the main', sometimes also referred to as 'operation mode programming' however the Select doesn't support this alternative programming configuration mode anyway so you don't have to worry about that.

[roebuck73]

Hi i messed up adding the new locos. I forgot to remove my old loco first now having problems can some one help? 

Thanks

[roebuck73]

Hi hope someone can help. I was given a new dcc fitted train and when 1 tried adding the loco i forgot to take the other train off first. Sounds etc dont work and it only moves slowly. 

[Chrissaf]

Do these sound and movement issues relate to the new loco you have been trying to add, or to the existing loco that has had its configuration corrupted by being left on the track?

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If its the new loco that has the issues. Did it test all OK before you tried to readdress it with the Select?

 

[roebuck73]

I have reset the select controller the and tried adding again the train goes round the track slowly and doesnt respond and the tts sound doesnt work but the original train responds perfectly. 

[roebuck73]

As soon as i put the new train on the tracks the tts sound worked and it moved it was then i tried to number it. 

[Chrissaf]

For maximum compatibility with a TTS loco, the Select needs version 1.5 firmware. When the Select powers up, watch the LCD display. A series of numbers will be displayed: nn followed by 30 followed 03 where nn is the firmware version number. For example, 11 = 1.1, 12 = 1.2 and 15 would be 1.5

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The 30 is the internal PCB board version number and 03 is the start up loco ID address.

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What nn numbers does your Select show during power up?

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Only Hornby can perform the firmware upgrade to version 1.5 it is free for 'Select Controllers' within the first year of purchase or if still under Warranty, else there is a one off charge of £15 GBP plus the cost of sending the controller to Hornby UK.

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Note that the 1.5 firmware provides TTS compatibility primarily for the sound functions (1.5 gives support for sound functions F9 and above [typically up to F17 required for a TTS] ). The loco may be moving slowly for other reasons that would would probably need further investigation.

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EDIT: Try overwriting the TTS decoder address again. This time with all other locos removed. Unfortunately, you can't perform a factory reset of the TTS decoder (writing value 8 to CV8) as the Select controller does not support writing the CV8 value.

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Slow to you might not be slow to us. Can you describe the speed in words. For example it takes x number of seconds to travel y distance.

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Note: The sound isn't enabled by default when you place the loco on the track. You have to turn the sound on first by sending F1.

[roebuck73]

Hi the boot numbers are 15 30 03. I have re set the select controller and added the train again. But it doesnt make any difference. If i took it to a shop to have the decoder chip reset would that work? Unless someone on here be able to do it for me? 

[Chrissaf]

OK you have got the latest version 1.5 firmware, thus you should have full TTS support with it.

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Yes any model shop that offers decoder fitting services will be able to reset the TTS decoder to the factory default. They just need to write decimal value 8 to CV number 8. This will also reset the decoder back to the factory DCC address number 003. You could also ask them to change the address to the ID you want to use, so that you don't have to. And of course, test it for correct operation (movement & sound) whilst they have it on the worlkbench.

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What is the RnnnnT model number by the way? Other forum members with the same model may be able to offer additional guidance based on their personal experiences if you tell us what model it is.

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Also, please answer the Q I asked about speed....

[roebuck73]

HORNBY Digital Loco R3285TTS LNER Class A4 'Gadwell' - Sound Railroad

The speed is aprox 45 seconds minimum for a 1m oval. If the speed controller is at max or minimum the speed of the train is the same. 

[Fishmanoz]

Hi Roebuck, I'm getting slightly confused here, so let me see if I can summarize where I think you've said you are at.

 

Let' start with your old loco.  It was working fine before you tried to program the new loco, and it is still working fine, is that right?  Is it still on the address you had for it before programming the new loco with the old on the track?  Or did it change to the address you were trying to put the new loco on?  What is the address it's on?

 

Now the new loco.  I'm assuming you mean bought new?  Then when you got it, it was working fine with sound on its default address 03?  Now since trying to program with the old loco, has its address changed to the one you were trying?  What address is that?  Or is it that it now starts to move as soon as you put it on the track, with the Select connnected to the track, and without calling it up with its address, and it won't stop?  And finally, I think you have tried to program it again by itself on the track but you didn't get anywhere, am I correct?

 

So that's my questions, if you could answer each one please.  Now I'm going to give you a little info and explain why I was asking.  First, resetting the Select was a good idea, but be aware this only affects the Select, it does nothing to the decoders in you locos.  Second, having more than one loco on the track when you try to program won't damage anything, it only means that you will likely end up with all locos on the address you were trying to program.  You can recover from that simply by programming each in turn, on the track by themselves, back to the address you wanted.

 

Just on your new loco and the questions I asked, if as I think it is running around without stopping and not responding to the controller, it sounds a bit like what is called DC Runaway.  What happens with this is that the decoder wrongly interprets that it has seen a DC signal not a DCC and, as DCC puts full volts to the track all the time, the loco runs off flat out and won't stop.  That's not quite what your loco is doing as it isn't running flat out, but not responding to the controller is the same I think.  Anyway, given you have been unable to reprogram an address and have it work, you are likely going to have to take it to someone who can reset the decoder by writing the number 8 to CV8, something your Select is incapable of doing as it is a quite basic controller, even at the latest v1.5 firmware update that you have.

[Chrissaf]

Yes, I concur the speed is slow. Plus the fact that it doesn't change in line with the controller knob position is also indicating a problem. I don't know about anybody else, but I have never come across these symptoms before. The speed seems to be more of a DC creep, rather than a DCC powered movement. The decoder will most likely have DC support enabled (CV29), but issues with CV29 DC being enabled usually involve the loco taking off at full speed, not moving slowly. Very strange symptoms indeed.

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Just wondering if the Select controller 'Address Zero' has been invoked in error and the loco is being affected by the 'address zero bit stretching' feature.

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Roebuck, could you answer Fishy's questions "What address have you tried to address the new loco with?" Also, his question about "Does the loco start moving as soon as it is placed on the track even if the controller is not touched?"

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Answers to those question will really help.

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Its possible (but clutching at straws here) that the decoder configuration has become corrupted due to trying to configure it on a shared track with another loco(s) present. It may be that only a CV8 reset will fix it.

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Open question to the forum.....Anybody else seen anything like this slow uncontrolled creeping before?

[roebuck73]

Sorry for the confusion. I had the original train on the track on 03. When i put the new train on the track it made a puffing noise and went round the track. I then tried adding that loco on a different number and thats when the problems started. When i reset the select controller neither train worked but i put the original train back on 03. Then took that train off and put the new train on 01 and it either moved slowly or not at all. Is that any clearer?both trains are hornby dcc fitted. It moves when placed on the track. 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Roebuck, that's slightly clearer but not crystal clear.  To get the whole thing step by step, I asked you 4 questions about your old loco and 6 about your new, and in answering you've given us 5 bits of info only.  Sorry to be a little pedantic about this but we can't see what's happening without your telling us.

 

I'll post this now so you can see my answer then separately post where I've got to with what you have said.

 

PS.  No Chris, haven't seen symptoms like this, if we are interpreting Roebuck correctly, but we won't know if we are until he answers all the questions.

[Fishmanoz]

From what you have said Roebuck, you hadn't attempted to do any loco address programming until after you tried the new loco.  The Select boots on address 03, your old loco was on 03 as you hadn't changed it, and all was working fine no need to do anything but run it. Then you got your new one, also on 03 and working fine by itself and with the old one on the track.  The only problem would be that both locos would be doing the same thing at the same time as both on 03.

 

Now the problems start as you try to write new address 01 to the new loco without taking the old off the track.  If the readdressing had worked, you'd have ended with both on 01.  Then when you fired up the Select, nothing would work on 03 and you would have had to select 01 via the Select's procedure for this (as per the manual) and then both would have responded the same on 01.  Then if you'd done a reset of the Select, it would have come on again on address 03 and again you'd have to change to 01 to get anything to work.

 

But we know this didn't work, or at least that's what you've said.  So I at least still need the answers to all of my questions to understand fully what is happening.

[96RAF]

There is a quirk that should be considerred...

 

...any loco that the Select has addressed and commanded will still be running at that setting, whether a speed or function selected.

Run through all the previous loco addresses and make sure all the functions are switched off and the speed is returned to zero.

 

Having said that a reset of the Select should have wiped that memory from the controller so it should not still be sending, however a decoder remembers its last command until told otherwise And if the Select was reset it will only be sending Idle packets and those to locos that are active this session.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

Roebuck, if your Select was upgraded to version 1.5 firmware as a later mod. And you are looking at the original (earlier firmware) printed manual. Then be aware that the 1.5 upgrade changes how you use the Select and its buttons and switches to do things.

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The latest 1.5 Select manual user guide can be downloaded here

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/view/download/item/502

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Your issues may possibly just be user error.

[roebuck73]

hi thank you all for your help. i found a local model train shop and he re set the loco and programmed it for me free!! i ended up buying some things off him anyway.