DCC LOCOS NOT WORKING

[rogercr]

I don't know what my grandson has done but he has more DCC locos that don't work than do.  He has 4 locos no more than two years old that don't work. He did use a couple of them on an analogue system  but I don't know if that has caused a fault or whether it's something else?

Any suggestions on how to get them going again please? He is using E LINK

 

[2e0dtoeric]

Sorry, that question is too vague!

We would need to know WHICH loco's (R number), and wether anything happens when they are called up.

Do the lights light?

Have the decoders reset themselves to 003?

Will they work with dc (put a pp3 battery on the wheels)

Have they been crashed or dropped?

 

[Chrissaf]

Also,

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1. The four that aren't working, did they all stop working at the same time or just generally one at a time over a period of time ?
2. Are the four non working locos making any attempt to move, do they make any noises (hums and such like) or are they completely as dead as a dodo, even if given a gentle nudge ?
3. How many locos are actually still working OK ?
4. What is the RailMaster software version (the version is displayed in a small yellow rectangular box just to the left of the clock) ?
5. What version of Windows is RailMaster running on ?
6.  Is the 'controller icon' in the top right hand corner a steady green (it looks a bit like an old audio cassette tape) or is it greyed out ?
7. Do you get any error messages popping up intermittently relating to eLink communications ?
8. What does the pop-up box say when you hover the mouse cursor over the 'controller icon' ?
9. How long has it been since the track rails and loco wheels have been cleaned ?
10. Are the points fitted with Hornby Digital Point Clips, are they still a snug fit or have they loosened ?
11. Is the LED on the eLink black box green or red or not on at all ?
12. How old is your Grandson, if very young does he treat the train set harshly like a toy ?
13. Is anybody in the family computer literate who could undertake any RailMaster software tasks that we might need to recommend or request ?

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Sorry for the barrage of questions, but with DCC there are so many things that could prevent a loco running. The questions are designed to try an eliminate some of the possibles. We need to try an identify whether the problem causing your issues are with the loco, the track or the control system (i.e RailMaster & eLink) or possibly a combination of concurrent problems.

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The questions have been numbered to make it easier for you to number your answers.

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Please also answer Eric's questions in the previous reply he made, they are all relevant, particularly the one about what happens when pressing a new charged 9 volt PP3 battery against the loco wheels on the four locos that don't run on the track.

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This is a long reply. Please do not click the "blue box white arrow" button. This is not a 'Reply to this post' button. Instead write your answers in the empty reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the 'Green Reply' button.

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[Fishmanoz]

Hi roger, that's a great list of questions for faultfinding both the locos and your Railmaster (RM) setup that 2e0 and Chris have given you and I'm not going to add to it.  But let me give you some additional information to better understand what might be happening.

 

For a start, running a DCC loco on DC is fine and will not cause damage, noting 2e0 wants you to check them this way with the battery touching the wheels to see if the motors are working.

 

My second point is that DCC can be sensitive to temporary short circuits and can sometimes cause loco decoders to reset, meaning their address goes back to the default 003 address, hence the suggestion to see if they can now be made to operate on this address (we are assuming all the locos have been set to some other address so they can be operated separately in the layout).  If they work on 003, simply program them back to the address you want for them.  This is the first thing I'd be checking.

 

Finally, all of Chris 's questions about RM are because we often find that people don't get their RM setup correct, so he is exploring this with you.

 

And just a final comment, the fact some locos are still working leads me to believe the problem is not too serious and will be sorted out in short order.

[Lucas Crunden]

Hi Chris,

I am Roger's grandson and I think I have some answers to your questions.

1. The locos didn't all go wrong at the same time. The first loco was R3246TTS Cock O' the North. Before i mucked about with the CV's the loco made sounds but didn't move. When I tell it to move it makes the accelerating sound and then goes into the first 'puff' sound and goes back to the idle noise. It never moves. I mucked about with the CV's to try and fix it but now I can't get any response out of it (not even on the prog track where it can't even tell that there is a loco there). The second loco is R3287TTS BR class 47 which works perfectly well until you go across a point where it then shorts out over every point. The third and fourth loco are a Jinty and a class 08 from the mixed goods DCC train set. These used to work but now neither of them work at all, and like the P2 they aren't picked up on the prog track.
2. The P2 makes a very quiet hum when placed on the prog track and the normal track, the 47 I have explained and the Jinty and the class 08 are dead.
3. 4 locos. 1 has an ESU LockSound v4.0 in it, 1 a hattons 8-pin and the others are just Hornby chips.
4. Railmaster v1.65.1
5. I run Railmaster on a Lenovo ThinkPad Pad 2. It runs on windows 8.1.
6. It's always green.
7. I dont get error messages apart from when the syestm shorts out.
8. Controller A version 1.07
9. It's been about a month since the track has been cleaned and the wheels haven't been cleaned in about a year.
10. They are all fitted with electrofrogs and still have a snug fit.
11. It's green.
12. I am 12 and I don't treat trains like a toy.
13. I can complete moderatley complex tasks on computers but my dad is very computer literate.

Railmaster is set up correctly (I think?). The locos havent been dropped and have only been crashed at a slow speed into the buffers. 

Many thanks,

Lucas

[Chrissaf]

Thank you Lucas for taking the time to fully answer my questions. When your Grandfather said Grandson I was thinking of someone about 5 years old. I would never have guessed your age to be 12 from your writing. Your writing seems, to me, to be consistent with someone older.

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Based upon your answers, I too believe that you have RailMaster set up correctly to communicate with the eLink interface. Everything is green that should be green, and no communication error messages (except a short circuit condition...which is normal).

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Point of clarification regarding answer 10. If the points are Hornby then the points are Insulfrogs not Electrofrogs. PECO make Electrofrog points and proper Electrofrog points do not need digital point clips fitted. I am assuming that when you say electrofrog, you just mean digital point clips are fitted to make all track rails electrically live and is just a misuse of terminology.

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On a DCC layout. The electrical paths between controller and loco motor have to be spotlessly clean. Analogue DC layouts are more forgiving in this respect, but with DCC track and wheels must be spotless. Given that the locos have slowly given up the ghost overtime and not all failed in one go I would suggest performing a thorough deep clean of the wheels (and track), but focus mainly on the loco wheels.

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Use Cotton Buds and IPA (IsoPropyl Alcohol) cleaning fluid. The wheels pick up a lot of grime and need to be regularly cleaned. As well as the wheel treads (the bit that contacts the rails) also clean the pickup rubbing surface on the back of the wheels. Be very careful doing this, as there are likely to be delicate bronze pickup wipers in those areas. These bronze wipers must NOT be bent or damaged.

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On the track, first use a specialist track cleaning rubber (do not use any normal DIY type abrasive). Hornby make a track cleaning rubber R8087, as do PECO with their PL-41. Once the track is rubbed over with the rubber, then use IPA on a cotton rag to go over all the rails again. Use Cotton Buds and IPA on the points where the moving rails contact on the sides of the fixed rails.

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With the cleaning tasks completed turn your attention to the locos. This is assuming that after cleaning everything there is still a loco or two still not working properly

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With the wheels now cleaned, test the effectiveness of the wheel cleaning by using a new PP3 9volt battery touched against the wheels (either way round). If all is well, the loco motors should turn at a slow to moderate pace.

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Read note further below regarding shorts before performing these following documented tasks.

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Since you have been tinkering with the CVs, I think it would be best if you return the decoders back to their factory defaults. Use the same cleaning regime on the programming track as used on the main layout. Hopefully, with the wheels and track clean, the decoders should respond more reliably to programming on the program track.

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With each loco on the programming track one at a time, write decimal value 8 to CV8. This will restore the loco decoder back to factory defaults including loco address number 003. Transfer the loco to the main layout and change the DCC ID for the loco in the RailMaster 'Loco Settings' screen to 003. Test the loco using that default 003 address. Do this for each non working loco.

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Once all locos are working on the 003 default address (I am being positive here and assuming that all these instructions are working for you as described and resolving your issues) then you can put the locos back on the programming track one at a time and re-address them back to their original unique DCC addresses.

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If you are really lucky, all your locos will be restored to operation. Well hopefully at least some of them will be. If any still do not function after all this, post back in this thread with what issues are still outstanding to be resolved.

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Notes on shorts.

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The loco that constantly shorts out on the points is another matter and needs to be dealt with separately. More often than not, this can be due to the distance between the wheels of the loco not being the correct distance apart. This is called the 'back to back' measurement and is as the term suggests, is the gap between the backs of the wheels. These measurements should be 14.4 +/- 0.05 mm. To measure this accurately you either need a specialist 'back to back' gauge or a digital vernier.

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It can take sometime to diagnose the exact cause of persistent short circuits, but given enough time and effort the source can be located and resolved in most cases.

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This leads on to another aspect about 'short circuits'. Transient short circuits on a DCC layout generate extremely high voltage spikes. These spikes can affect loco decoders in a number of ways. The worst case scenario is that they can destroy the decoder completely (the decoder doesn't even need to be in the same loco that has created the short). The shorts can also corrupt a decoder configuration or just cause it to revert to its default configuration.

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Thus it is possible, that your non working locos just have corrupted decoder configurations that just need resetting. At this point you can go back to the section above about resetting a decoder by writing decimal value 8 to CV8.

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I have covered a lot of topics in this reply, it will take you and your dad / granddad some time to work through them all. But hopefully at the end, your layout will be restored to operation.