08 Shunter issue on double oval track

[psychoclops]

Hi guys, I've recently started going into dcc model railways and have encountered an issue that I don't understand. I have 2 locomotives, a Bachmann class 37 dcc sound and a Hornby class 08 that is fitted with a bog standard hornby decoder R8249.

I have a double oval layout with crossover points but I want to control both locos ay the same time so I linked both ovals with hornby power clips to achieve this. However with the clips setup the shunter refuses to move but my Bachmann loco runs fine? Any ideas why?

If I remove the clips the Shunter works again. I've made sure that each track is linked correctly (outside rail on outer oval links to outside rail on inner oval etc). All points and track are Hornby and I'm using a Hornby Select controller. 

[Chrissaf]

What happens if you position the 08 on the track piece to which your Select is directly connected.

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If you are using R8232 Digital Point clips on the points. Then it is not a necessity to supplement them with R8201 link wire power clips (I am assuming this is what you mean by power clips and the reference to outside rail to outside rail connectivity).

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Question: If removing the clips and the 08 works, then why have the clips at all ?

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I'm struggling a bit to understand what you are trying to explain in your description.

[psychoclops]

Refuses to move, tried it with the class 37 off the track too, i can run the class 37 around the outer oval, switch it to the inner oval and it'll run no problem no matter how the points are set it runs happily along. The Shunter refuses point blank to move unless I disconnect the power clips, but then I can only run it on the inner oval and sidings if the points are set from the outer oval to inner oval. Of course this then means I can't run both locos the way I want.

[Chrissaf]

Use R8232 Digital Point Clips on the points instead.

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Some photos showing your wire connections would really help. With some visibility of your setup, we might spot something obvious that you are not covering with your text explanations. Use the Black & White hill icon to post photos (.JPG file format). Note that they need to be approved by forum admin during normal office hours so will not appear before Monday.

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In the meantime, double check your inner to outer track clip connections against this wiring diagram.

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Notice how the wires are connected differently depending upon which side of the track the clip is placed.

 

[Fishmanoz]

What you are telling us would appear to be impossible.  If one of the track clips were the wrong way around then as soon as you set the points to go from one oval to the other, it should short out and shut down everything.  So I can't see how they can be wrong if one loco is working.

 

However, was this originally a DC layout and are you possible using a DC power track or power clip somewhere?  You can check and convert them by flipping open the black plastic box and clipping off at the legs of the capacitor you find inside. Let us know if that gets you anywhere. I suspect you have that problem with your link from inner to outer track with one of the clips or both.  But do check from Select to track too.

[Chrissaf]

psycho,

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Fishy makes a good point that I hadn't considered. If you have made your own link wires connecting the inner and outer track together using some old unused DC analogue power clips. Then those power clips will contain suppressor capacitors inside them that are connected across the DCC signal path. The capacitors and DCC signals are not good 'bed fellows'. The capacitors can prevent your controller DCC signals from reaching your 08 loco on the inner oval that are telling the loco to move.

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Open the cover on the clips (all of them) and if you see any disc type component soldered across the wire paths, cut it out and remove it. DC Analogue power clips and power tracks are not compatible with DCC. This is why DCC have their own DCC specific versions i.e R8241 & R8242.

[psychoclops]

Sorry for late reply, newbie members are limited to 2 posts per day 🤐

 

Well thanks Fishmanoz, problem solved! I'm annoyed that a reputable dealer would sell me those powerclips and not mention that they're not compatible with dcc considering he sold me the Class 37, chipped the 08 and sold me the track knowing it's a dcc setup (why get dcc locos otherwise?!). It's also strange then that my Class 37 ran fine when it shouldn't have? The same dealer also sold me electrofrog points when I wanted insulfrog but that's another story altogether! Think i'll find myself another model dealer now.

 

Anyhows it's all sorted, removing the capacitors did the job! By the way Chrissaf thanks for the feedback, also on a side note the second setup on the wiring diagram you posted was the way I had it set up (A to B and B to A)

Thanks again guys, was much appreciated 😎

[Chrissaf]

You should find the newbie posting limit is removed after the first 24 / 48 hours. It was reintroduced by Hornby forum admin after a recent spate of multiple SPAM posts.

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Glad the issue is resolved. I think the problem with some shop staff, is if they are employed by the owner and not the owner themselves, then they may not always be railway modellers themselves. Not helped by the fact that the unsuitability of the DC clips in a DCC environment is not widely publicised in Hornby documentation. It is something that we are aware of as enthusiasts, having learnt it from experience and sharing the info with others on the forum.

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Its also probably true to say that the kind of modeller who runs their own shop, is probably the kind of modeller who is not going to be using Hornby power clips on their layout. They are more likely to have a BUS wiring solution with directly soldered wires to track.

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The 37 may have had a different decoder in it.

[Fishmanoz]

Glad it's fixed psycho. I agree your model shop should have known better.

 

It's also fair to say that the interference suppression capacitor in question degrades rather than completely kills the DCC signal and so some decoders may work, others not, which is exactly what you had.

 

PS.  Chris, not sure if you remember but back in the early days of eLink, some Western Master sets shipped with the wrong power track. As a consequence, one of the early posts in Latest News in RM contains full instructions with pictures for determining which you have and how to remove the capacitor. So Hornby certainly do publish it, if you know where to look.

[Chrissaf]

That's the issue though isn't it. Knowing where to look. Hornby should really include a note to that effect in more easily found locations. Perhaps in all DCC product packaging for example.

[Fishmanoz]

Agreed.