Railroad 9F

[thetowans]

Can anyone help please How do you take the top off the tender of the Railroad 9F please as I would like to put real coal in the bunker ?

[NWR-Gordon-4]

You can't remove the fake coal load on all locomotives. I will have to see if I can remove it on my Hornby Murdoch, which has the same tooling, as the Hornby RailRoad Class 9F's. I have a gut feeling  that you can't, but you never know!

[2e0dtoeric]

You would have to indulge in some surgery.

Take the whole tender body off (I think there's a screw near or under the NEM box, and a tongue at the front), then cut out the fake coal, make a floor, then add the real coal to that.

Is it really worth the hassle?

[GeoFF03]

I may be mistaken, its been a while since I had to remve the tender top, but I think its just clipped on.  Also bare in mind that there may not be much space after you've cut out the dummy coal, as the tender still has the remains of the motor housing, a relic of its tender drive origins.

[Western Fan]

I’ve never understood why manufacturers mould coal. Why not make an accurate tender and then let the customer decide how much coal to put in it?

Something from the depths of my memory tells me that my Britannia had a removable piece of coal and the coal hopper was modelled quite well but there was a big round hole in the bottom and no attempt to model the path from the hopper to the front of the tender where the fireman could get it. My Britannia must be about 50 years old now but, if I remember correctly, the coal hopper was better than the modern equivalent.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

It is possible to get a floor in to clear the motor block (in both Tender Drive and later RR models, which have the block in place, but no motor parts, to hold the wheels and tender pick-ups).

 

I have done this with a tender drive 9F loco. (The same tender body was used on Evening Star and other (Black) 9F models, and the later Britannia locos as well....)

 

There are two clips on each side of the tender chassis that engage in slots inside the tender body..

 

Hornby instructions reccommended "Squeezing" the ends of the tender inwards, causing a slight outwards bowing of the sides, which SHOULD help release the clips from the slots. Try one side at a time...works for me...

 

It does involve "chain drilling" with a small bit in a "Pin-Vice" (hand drill. I do not reccomend an electric drill! 😮) around the inside of the coal load, and cutting through CAREFULLY with a small razor saw or Craft Knife, finally cleaning up the inside.

 

Then plastic card was used to make a rectangular box, the botom of which just clears the top of the motor block.

 

This was painted black, and coal glued in place with PVA (Wood Glue).

 

Tri-ang Railways tenders mostly had a seperate plastic coal moulding.

 

The bodies were mainly attached to the chassis by a screw through the bottom of the coal space, from INSIDE the coal space. The coal moulding was basically a cover for the screw location....which does resemble the coal space a bit!

 

The EX LNER B12 tender was, I think, the first tender with intrgrally moulded coal, being screwed on from the bottom, as was the Ex GWR Hall, and LNER / BR A3 Flying Scotsman tenders....

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The modified Black 9F with tender coal modified......./media/tinymce_upload/04105eb113ccb4c6c18c7b8e4a198fc4.jpg

 

/media/tinymce_upload/7a111c3a75c9e9ab8cd50e70e92b50c6.jpg

 

/media/tinymce_upload/171e0e13d999df9fe7a64472c1d19d2d.jpg

 

 

[thetowans]

Many thanks to all who answered, think I am going to have to sit doiwn and make a descision, once again thanks to you all.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

I may be mistaken, its been a while since I had to remve the tender top, but I think its just clipped on.  Also bare in mind that there may not be much space after you've cut out the dummy coal, as the tender still has the remains of the motor housing, a relic of its tender drive origins.

The Class 9F's are loco driven, in the Hornby RailRoad range, GeoFF03. There is no motor in the way, when you take the tender bodyshell off.

[Howbi]

It's better to check first before giving a definitive answer..... the old Ringfield motor housing is still in there as GeoFF03 said and may be in the way...........HB

/media/tinymce_upload/f85a5813f3ea922885421986a15079ab.jpg

[NWR-Gordon-4]

What do you mean by the housing for it, though, howbiman?

[Fishmanoz]

Now I could be wrong Jacob, but do you think there is a possibility he means the 2 large Ringfield shaped lumps at the top of the diagram HB has posted, the ones between the Item 12 wheels?

 

When you've checked this out, could you go back and read Geoff's post again, then see if your reply to him makes sense.

[Howbi]

/media/tinymce_upload/fbd0b1381d99c3bf918fc12cf6eb6884.jpg

[NWR-Gordon-4]

Now I could be wrong Jacob, but do you think there is a possibility he means the 2 large Ringfield shaped lumps at the top of the diagram HB has posted, the ones between the Item 12 wheels?

 

When you've checked this out, could you go back and read Geoff's post again, then see if your reply to him makes sense.

 

I will go back and re-read the original post, but I think my response makes sense.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

So that lump on the chassis, is what is being a called the 'housing', howbiman? So is that is what stores the motor?

 

That image you posted, is that for the same tooling as the Class 9F, in the RailRoad range?

[Howbi]

This image is from Service Sheet 328E, Railroad 9F...........Hornby used the same tender as in the original Ringfield powered loco but without the actual motor because, as you said, the new can motor is in the locomotive but the housing remains in the tender probably until all existing stock is used up then it will be re-tooled without the housing........possibly...........HB

[NWR-Gordon-4]

I am unsure how long ago, the Class 9F came into the RailRoad range and when it was tooled to be loco driven, but why didn't Hornby take out the motor housing, out of the tender? It seems a but silly and a waste of money, when it dosen't do anything. That could be the reason why the Hornby RailRoad Class 9F's cost so much to buy.

[The son of Triangman]

The standard Railroad 9F has been around since 1971 when Tri-ang-Hornby brought it out so is a very old model.  It makes no sense to make a new casting for the tender weight when the cost of a new mould for the tender weighting system would be big money, Hornby have just used the old motor casting instead and saved money. If you want to add coal I would use a peelable glue on the existing coal and add a thin layer of real coal.  If you use a peelable glue, you can always remove the coal for when it comes time to sell the model thus increasing it's s/h value rather than knocking money off it's s/h value if you just any old glue which will mean a permanent change or butcher the tender top by cutting out the moulded coal.

[The son of Triangman]

Here's a 1973 version, it's being restored at present, the replacement factory cabside transfers have to be sprayed with a lacquer top coat and the tended chassis sprayed eggshell to match the original broken tender chassis.  The loco came in as a complete wreck without a motor, a child had "played with it", smashed the motor out of the chassis, nameplates were missing, one deflector was gone, linning was in poor shape, injector pipework was missing, bent up, front bogie spring was gone, couplings all bone side of valvegear was trashed, the other side bent up, it was a right old mess

 

The motor I found is being replaced once the tender chassis is sprayed with one a better one built out of my new old spares stock.  One wheelset needs still to be replaced but I have a restored complete good chassis ready. Going to be a stunner once I have got her done.

/media/tinymce_upload/4fcf96f31361ce62b5e501aaf3170131.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/a68270f81a6785329b2d4298b51321de.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/248cfc63f45a36558cd5f8534632c01d.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/c11a08e3ad4fd10f64aff7c00cf08f51.jpg

[NWR-Gordon-4]

That's a very old loco!  😀

 

But, the tooling of that Class 9F from 1973 and the Hornby RailRoad Class 9F is from 2007+, so the two can't be compared, The son of Triangman.

[SteveM6]

That's a very old loco!  😀

 

But, the tooling of that Class 9F from 1973 and the Hornby RailRoad Class 9F is from 2007+, so the two can't be compared, The son of Triangman.

The Railroad version is basically a re-engineered version of the old Triang model so it is perfectly correct to compare them as SoT has done.

Jacob, try some basic research before committing your comments to the forum in future.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

They are not exactly the exactly the same though. The RailRoad Class 9F has sprung buffers, attached handrails and is loco driven. The 1973 Class 9F is tender driven and has none of those extra detailing, that I just mentioned, that the RailRoad model has.

 

What do you mean by "try some basic research", SteveM6? Where and how do I do that? Are you saying that my comments are not helpful?

[SteveM6]

They are not exactly the exactly the same though. The RailRoad Class 9F has sprung buffers, attached handrails and is loco driven. The 1973 Class 9F is tender driven and has none of those extra detailing, that I just mentioned, that the RailRoad model has.

 

What do you mean by "try some basic research", SteveM6? Where and how do I do that? Are you saying that my comments are not helpful?

I presume you have heard of Google?

And no, a categoric statement that they "can't be compared" is of no use to anyone.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

Yes, I have heard of Google.

 

I didn't say that they can't be compared. I said that they are have different toolings and have been built in different era's.

[Tony57]

Gentlemen 

There are 4 versions of the 9f manufacturers introduction dates1971, 1988, 1999, 2008. and there are variations with in the eras.

One of the best referance books to get is the Ramsey's british model trains catalogue, but it will not give you all the information to identify the differances between one loco and another. People like SoT who ran a railway model shop and repair service are the best sources of information in the variations that can be found.