Faulty New-Style Motor - Any Ideas Please?

[Timbo M]

Apologies if this has been asked before - probably has, but had a quick search and not able to lay my hands on anything...

I have one of the fairly new a Hornby R3486 DB Schenker Class 66s.  Had it about 6-9 months and it's been running fine (on DC) without any issues.  However, last night it started getting "jittery" (like when contacts aren't great on older locos) - then shortly after that stopped dead in its tracks with absolutely no signs of life.

I've done the usual checks/basics - i.e. cleaned the wheels, checked the track (other locos were ran fine on the stretch I was using for testing) but this made no difference whatsoever.

I also opened it up and took the powered bogie out and all visible wires/connections were intact.  However, it's one of those modern motor units which appear to be all sealed up and not a good old fashioned ringfield you can take to pieces and usually get going again.

So, wondering if anyone has had this experience before and any tips for troubleshooting?

And/or am I right in thinking the motors on these more modern locos are sealed versions so once they've gone they've gone pretty much and I need to consider buying a new motor if I want to get it running again?

Thanks in advance for your advise/suggestions.

[96RAF]

A lot of locos with these 'modern' motors state they have a running life of 150 hours, so that could be used in short calendar time even with modest daily/weekly use.

 

Not much you can do except replace them like for like or with some digging maybe find a better quality item with the same fit, form and function.

Rob

[Timbo M]

Thanks for the reply, Rob

They certainly don't make them like they used to!  I wouldn't have thought I'd quite done 150 hours with it, but it's certainly had use and beyond the stage I could return to the retailer.

I've got another Hornby 66 (GBRf 66751) on pre-order already (and the Evening Star one too from NRM/Locomotion, but can't remember the make), so think I'll just cut my losses with this one.  Might keep the body which is in good nick and then I can switch it around with the GBRf one periodically for variety, as I'm guessing they're all the same design bar the paintwork.

Cheers, Tim

[Rog RJ]

New motors are available fairly cheaply.  I believe this http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/images/hornby_spares/x9674.jpg is the one you need.

 

Other suppliers may also have them, such as Peter's Spares.

[Timbo M]

Cheers Roj - there's the complete unit/bogie assembly I need on Peter's Spares for c.£12 + P&P, so will get one of those and see if my novice soldering skills can get 66165 back on the rails!

[2e0dtoeric]

Hi, Timbo (are you the same Timbo M that lives near the Gt Orme?)

Yes, you can swap t66 bodies about, they are all fitted to the same chassis. But beware - as you may have found, the lighting panel in the cab roof is feed by a tiny plug and four wires - at each end.

Also, you might find the yellow 'end' paint shade differs across different liveries. I swapped a freightliner shell for a GBrF one, and found the GBrF yellow is more orange than the Freightliner!

As has been said, these can motors are only short-lived, and cannot be repaired. There have been lots of protests over this, to no avail.

All you can do is lay in a stock of the various motor assemblies, so when one dies, you aren't stuck locoless for months while you track down a replacement.

[Timbo M]

Thanks for the info 2e0dtoeric. I don't live near Gt Orme so that must be a different Timbo!

The DB 66 I have is one of the cheap(er) and cheerful ones without lights (unless I'm missing something) so don't have an issue with the lighting panel.  Not sure if the GBRf one will have them.

Thanks to the above suggestions, I've tracked down a reasonable priced replacement motor/bogie unit, so will go with the option of getting that and switching the dudd one out.  I've found the one I need (with black steps) is actually in stock.

I'll admit to having 26 other locos on my layout (plus 2 more on pre-order) so I shouldn't go short of haulage options (I hope!) if one or two end up in the 'works' awaiting parts for repair :-)

It's a shame the art of making decent quality items that last appears to have been lost these days (in many areas).  I've got a fair few "old" ringfield motor 92s, 90s, a 47 and an HST that whilst a bit clunky and noisy at times, they work fine after 15-20 years - and are pretty easy to fix with the odd new cog or two when they do break down.

[The son of Triangman]

Sadly the days of serviceable motors and spares parts including spare bodies are behind us now.

[choralc]

Hmmm ... 6-9 months? Do you have proof of purchase as it sounds like a warranty repair to me.

[The son of Triangman]

If you've had the loco from new and it's 6-9 months old I would second Choralc's post, a warranty repair so contacting Hornby would be first port of call.

[Timbo M]

I'll go back to the retailer and give it a go in terms of the warranty claim.  I'm almost certain it's not done the 150 hours running (suggested life span of the motor as above) - but I suspect issue will be proving it and "my word against theirs..."

I've also ordered a relatively inexpensive replacement drive unit now, so there's an extent to which I'll expend lots of time arguing with the retailer if they don't want to play ball.

[choralc]

There shouldn't be a problem if you have proof of purchase to return the item to the retailer for warranty work.

 

If there is I would contact Hornby Customer Care direct with details of your consumer experience.

[Castle-Man]

It does seem strange that you can take a Hornby Dublo Loco dating from the late 50's to 60's and have the motor rewound and the loco fully refurbished yet if you spend £100-200 for a modern locomative you will only get 6-9 month use before throwing the motor away.  Plus if you have a bad de-railment damaging the body you may be completely unable to get it fixed.

Still what is the betting that in 40-50 years time when these are vintage motors someone will have found how to open and repair the motors and even maybe supply re-manufactured parts.

[96RAF]

@castle-man

Still what is the betting that in 40-50 years time when these are vintage motors someone will have found how to open and repair the motors and even maybe supply re-manufactured parts.

 

They are simple to open, just bend the tabs on the case away from the brush holder.

Problem is then you can see how cheap and nasty the brush gear is and how difficult replacing it with decent parts would be.

With some you could get away with soldering some carbon brushes onto the brush arms.

Then when you reassemble it all the tabs break off the case, so the holder has to be glued in.

All too much faffing around probably . . .

[Castle-Man]

RAF96.  Yes definately sounds like the need for a better motor with the same footprint as a direct replacement.

Funny everyone keeps saying how much better the modern motors are.  Smoother, quieter, using less power etc.  That may be true but this certainly does not sounds as if they are better in terms that I understand the meaning of the word.

[96RAF]

Even if there was a fit, form and function replacement available from a quality motor manufacturer, how long before it was cloned by the fakers.

[Fazy]

The new motors are repairable.  Just no one sells the parts. I repaired a sealed motor.  The motor as to lugs which clip into the motor body.  With a small screw driver you can free the back. The ammeter can then be taken out. I used a HB pencil lead point shaped to replace worn bushes secured with a drop of super glue. Has run for 2-3YEARS now still running. This was a Matsumi motor which I dropped and killed. 

 

One day I'll try a Hornby motor when one dies

[The son of Triangman]

You can indeed bodge/patch the brushes with pencil carbon on some of them but it's a lot of messing about and time consuming. Commercially such repairs aren't economic. Better motors with full spares support are needed, motors you can just change the brushes on like you used to be able to do with the old motors.

[The son of Triangman]

The question is should we be bodging brushes in order to get a motor to run on a £150- £400 model? There should be full spares support available including spare easy to fit brushes.