Crocodiles!

[81F]

I have several bogie well wagons, LMS, LNER but mostly GWR Crocodile H with various loads, and am curious to know how they would be used/marshalled into a train. Most of the photos I have seen are record photos of individual wagons with a specific load in a siding specially posed for the photo.

 

Given the nature of their loads would they have travelled on their own with just a couple of wagons and a brake in special trains.

 

Aside from the empty ones, the loads attached to them are as follows:

"Small" ships propeller in a frame

Large ships propeller,

a large gear wheel in a frame

a large boiler (not a locomotive type)

and a transformer

 

Any photos or links would be most helpful

 

Cheers

 

Steve

[2e0dtoeric]

Ah - bogey well-wagons!

I was thinking those four-legged amphibians with lots of teeth, or the Swiss electric loco's loosely based on a Garrett!

All a quick Google showed was individual wagons.

[Tony57]

Hi 81F

I have a great book Freight Wagons and Loads in Service on the Great Western Railway and British Rail Western Region. by JH Russell (oxford Publishing CO Oxford SBN 86093 155 2)

In it it shows actual trains with single and multiple crocodiles, some in regular trains, others as Sunday specials with the loads being out of guage. 

[LCDR]

 The 'Crocodile' was the GWR telegraphic code for the 'Weltrol' (Well Trolley Wagon) . Mostly these were 8 wheel (two bogie), wagons with a low height floor but with side girders which projected above the floor which increased their carrying capacity but limiting the width of the load that could be conveyed.  Some 4 wheeled Weltrols were made but these were quite rare. There were also some 12 wheel versions which were capable of carrying 120 tons.

 

Here is a Weltrol loaded with a tank car that had been involved in an accident, the wheels having been ripped off it was the only way to get it to the repair depot, seen here at Stoke.

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To increase the load that could be carried large timber baulks were sometimes placed in pairs along the length of the wagon and the load was rested on the baulks or fixed to them . Here is a pile of them in the sidings at Broughton Lane Sheffield where a large number of Specially Constructed wagons were based.

 

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A wider load could be carried on a 'Flatrol', (Flat Trolley Wagon) which was similar to the Weltrol, but had a flat deck without side girders. This allowed a load at least as wide a the wagon to be carried, but unless baulks were employed the load was inferior to a Weltrol. 

This is a bogie Flatrol of LMS design modernised by BR. The timber baulks were attached to the bolsters over each bogie./media/tinymce_upload/0628544531ffbaff456fb60a7270aab3.jpg

 There were far more 4 wheeled Flatrols, in service.

This is a 4 wheel Flatrol, also of LMS design but built by BR.

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All these wagons were classified as 'Specially Constructed'. Generally speaking unless the load was exceptional, that is it exceeded the loading gauge or was exceptionally long and projected beyond the end of the wagon, Specially Constructed Wagons could be marshalled anywhere in a freight train. However very few were fitted with continuous brake equipment and so would not be part of the 'fitted head' . Loads that were exceptional however would be marshalled at the rear just in front of the guards van. This was to allow the guard to monitor the load througout the journey.

 In more recent times these have been retained by the Civil Engineer to take engineering plant to worksites.

 

Many of these wagons tended to be nocturnal so pictures of them in trains are rare.

[LCDR]

 The LOWMAC was a much more common Specially Constructed Vehicle, here is one at Crewe loaded with a diesel locomotive engine.

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Here is one loaded with a single line relaying gantry.

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and here is one loaded with a loading shovel used by the Civil Engineer for spreading ballast.

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[81F]

 Many thanks everyone, I think I'll have to try and get Freight Wagons and Loads in Service on the Great Western Railway, I have several other books by Russell but typically not that one!

 

Thanks also for the pictures of the wagon loads. I have a damaged coal wagon that might end up on one of the empty Crocs if I cabnnot fix the broaken W iron

[The Doc]

I came across this model wagon in the "unusual kit-built wagons for sale" bargain box at a local model railway club open day.  It is made from a black plastic kit but there are no markings on it (e.g. manufacturers name) or any decals/transfers on the sides.  Does anyone have any idea what type of wagon it is?  It only cost me £3 so I snapped it up (bad crocodile pun intended).  I am definitely going to add a load to it - probably something metal - as the wagon is very light and there is no room for any lead underneath.

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[LY shunter]

Doc This looks like a G W R chaired sleeper wagon made from a kit from Cambrian

[The Doc]

 @L&Y shunter,

Thanks for the swift reply. 😀

[LCDR]

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This is a GW Chaired Sleeper Wagon  that was sold to Shipbreakers at Queenborough and has been converted to internal use as a Flatrol.  The steel deck is 'home made'.  The raised ends have been burned off at the top of the headstock. Originally there will have been vertical stanchions along the sides supporting timber side panels

There are plenty of pictures here of wagons in original condition.

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrtauntonzcv