Small and Large Tension Lock Couplers

[Colonel Leon]

Hello everyone,

Just a question - can you couple Hornby large tension lock couplers to Hornby small tension lock couplers? If you do couple them, will there be derailments on points, random uncoupling? ect. ect. All informative replys are appreciated.

[LCDR]

 Yes you can, and yes there sometimes are, especially random uncoupling.  In theory they should inter-couple, but practice is somewhat different. The age and type of the large coupling may also influence how reliable they are. There are metal ones fitted to older vehicles which I find work better than the moulded plastic ones.

[Chrissaf]

Usually, the length of the hooks are different as well, which means that only the shorter hook will make contact with the bar of the other. This means that the 'lock' part of the 'Tension Lock' mechanism is only half engaged. Personally, I find even when both couplings are of the narrow (small) variety the slight difference between Hornby and Bachmann 'Tension Lock' coupling dimensions is still enough to experience random uncoupling. Since all my rolling stock are NEM 652 pockets, I standardise on the Bachmann narrow NEM couplings throughout my fleet, even on Hornby products.

[Colonel Leon]

Usually, the length of the hooks are different as well, which means that only the shorter hook will make contact with the bar of the other. This means that the 'lock' part of the 'Tension Lock' mechanism is only half engaged. Personally, I find even when both couplings are of the narrow (small) variety the slight difference between Hornby and Bachmann 'Tension Lock' coupling dimensions is still enough to experience random uncoupling. Since all my rolling stock are NEM 652 pockets, I standardise on the Bachmann narrow NEM couplings throughout my fleet, even on Hornby products.

Regarding that all your rolling stock used a NEM 652 - What about rolling stock that has the large tension lock coupler. Did you snip it off? Or were you careful and bought rolling stock that was capatable with NEM?

[walkingthedog]

I have changed all my rolling stock to narrow couplings. If they had moulded, riveted or screwed wide couplings they were removed by cutting, filing or unscrewing and a way was found to fix new ones. 

[Chrissaf]

Personal choice, but I only buy modern rolling stock with factory fitted NEM652 pockets. Nothing second-hand either, all brand new retailer stock i.e not ebay.

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The point I was really trying to make, is that there are no 'standards' for 'Tension Lock' couplings (well none that I am aware of). Therefore, dimensions and design will vary, not only between different brands but also within the product range of the same brand. Thus my approach has been to standardise on one brand and specific coupling product to maximise compatibility.

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Standardising on NEM pockets also gives me flexibility. Flexibility to use Bachmann  'Pipe Couplings' on my passenger coach rakes. Plus the flexibility to at least give me the option to easily change to a completely different coupling system if I should choose to at a later date. Kadees for example.

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May I humbly suggest and advise that the 'white arrow in blue box' button is not a 'Reply to this Post' button. It is not necessary to re-quote a post that is on the same page, particularly when it is the one directly above your reply. When making a reply, it is forum etiquette to use the 'Reply' text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green Reply button.

[naugytrax]

Sorry to niggle, but what's NEM 652? According to the MOROP website it seems to be an 8 - pin connector, probably for DCC decoders. I think what's meant here is NEM 362.

(Just to avoid confusing newcomers!)

[Chrissaf]

Quite correct "naugytrax". My wrist well and truly slapped. My comment should have read NEM 362 not 652. A typo on my part as a result of just relying on memory. As correctly pointed out, NEM 652 is the 8 pin DCC decoder connector.

[Colonel Leon]

In conclusion, would you say that small tension lock couplers couple well with other small tension lock couplers? Would a good way to go (for me, if I always want to stick with small tension lock couplers) is to just carefully buy rolling stock with ONLY small tension lock couplers?

 

Apologies if I caused inconvienience with my last post, I am new to this fourm, as you may see. I will be careful to use the green reply button from now on.

[walkingthedog]

It's a matter of preference. I like narrow ones others medium or wide. Which ever way you go you'll have to replace some. For me that's part of railway modelling. 

[LCDR]

I think it is fair to say that most tension lock couplings will usually  couple to others of different width, and there are pros and cons for all types.  If your curves are reasonably gentle, your track is well laid, and you do not run at excessive speeds you should get trouble free running. Propelling with loco on the rear round curves may cause problems with mixed coupling types.

 

Narrow couplings can be a problem on 4 wheel stock with long wheelbase if you use train set curves.  The end throw may be too much especially through reverse curves like you find in crossovers. 

 

If you do not want the hassle of buying and fitting alternative couplings you can of course segregate your rolling stock by coupling type.

 

I also run a small mixture of Hornby Dublo/Peco couplings alongside the majority of  tension locks, so I have created a few adaptor vehicles which have a Peco coupler at one end and a Triang one at the other.  Triang introduced this feature in 1965 when they purchased Hornby Dublo, I have extended this by adapting some early Dapol / Wrenn vehicles which retained the securing points for both types.

[81F]

 As I had a lot of moulded on wide couplings and my GWR toads kept derailing with the narrow couplings I have standardized on the medium width couplings for short wheel based goods wagons and wide for almost everything else except some rakes of coaches

[Colonel Leon]

If you standerdize on a certain coupler, you cut off the large tension tension lock couplers (the ones that are moulded on the wagon). How do you stick a new coupler on? I find glue very unrealiable.

[walkingthedog]

I've never used glue. I use screws or nuts and bolts with spacers to get the correct height. It is a matter of trial and error. Screw fitted NEM sockets are available from the likes of DCC concepts. 

[LCDR]

 Small self tapping screws can be purchased.

 

I have used this firm in the past. http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/self_tapping_screws.htm

[Stone gnome]

I'm trying to find the actual length otf the X8389 coupling hook and whether they will fit on Gresley coaches.

[96RAF]

I use the wide ones on my wagons, with the hook removed from one of them. It just clips out If you tip it. This allows the simgle hook to slide around the wide loop without fouling on another hook.

Carriages I usually leave the ones that come with the unit, except where I have used Bachmann pipe joint couplers in a fixed rake.

Rob

[Forum-1211528]

The Triang tension lock coupling works fine with the Modern small Hornby Tension as does the Mk2 fifties Triang bar tension lock coupling. The dodgy Bachmann couplings are hopeless and if say a Bachmann coach is in a rake of Hornby Coaches the Bachmann coupling on the coach comes unhooked from the Hornby bar causing a derailment or crash! The simple solution here is as the Bachmann coach has NEM 362 pockets, remove the Bachmann couplings replace them with the Triang size coupling that fits the NEM 362 sockets you won't get anymore trouble doing that as with Hornby couplings everything stays coupled up running fine with no more of these stupid Bachmann couplings!!

[walkingthedog]

As far as I am concerned the above is total rubbish. 

[Jimbo1707820979]

 Small self tapping screws can be purchased.

 

I have used this firm in the past. http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/self_tapping_screws.htm

Many thanks for the link. Very useful indeed to know of a source for these small fixings.

[Jimbo1707820979]

If you standerdize on a certain coupler, you cut off the large tension tension lock couplers (the ones that are moulded on the wagon). How do you stick a new coupler on? I find glue very unrealiable

 

Good point, Colonel. I was wondering about this myself. Thanks for raising the whole subject of couplings which is of wide interest as can be seen from the number of posts already.

[Lb101]

I prefer wide coupled to wide couplings. I have a mix of brands,ages and rolling stock. If I buy a new out of the box anything and it has a narrow coupling I do what RAF96 does and I remove the hook from the wide whatever it it is I’m coupling too with it narrower one. Less ‘tangling’ of hooks, more give around curves, and less derailments. Sometimes I need to bend the hook to get a better and easier ‘join’ Though only slightly as that can cause derailments in itself. I prefer ‘decouplments’ (which is the disadvantage of this) to derailments. For faster express trains I keep them all the same and don’t mix.