Class 40 (R3392TTS) Directional & Head light

[Chrissaf]

Hi Sandy...........welcome to the Forum.........this picture shows the wiring I needed to add lights to my class 67 with TTS decoder although I have not yet added the red lights..........I unscrewed the 8 pin socket to gain access to the pins underneath........the thick white, yellow and blue wires are soldered to their respective pins..........the white wire goes to the front white light and in your case to the rear red light..........the yellow wire goes to the rear white light and front red light.........the return black wires from front and back lights each join to one leg of a 1k resistor.......the other legs join to the Blue wire which is the Common return.........the LEDs I used are cut from a strip as pic shows........hope this helps.........HB

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[Howbi]

Wiring chart for 8 pin decoder............HB

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[Chrissaf]

Wiring a decoder with LED lighting is shown here:

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http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html#Decoder_1

[96RAF]

Express Models do three lighting kits for Class 40 (Bachmann and Lima). You would have to look to see if any matched the TTS lighting configuration. These kits are much more expensive than doing it yourself from components.

 

Be warned though that the TTS decoder has limited and unprotected output on the functions so ensure even with a kit that you add an extra 1Kohm resistor to keep the current draw within decoders limits, else you risk damaging the decoder.

 

Rob

[Johnde]

Having fitted lights to the Hornby class 40 using an Express models kits I agree with RAF96. If you dont feel confident about sourcing/fitting the components then Express models i have found to be a usefull way to fitting lights. Have used there kits on a number of loco's. 

[96RAF]

Just to add a bit to the build.

I use the Hornby loco/tender 4-pin plug and socket in the lighting harness from decoder socket to loco body in order to make it easy to disconnect as and when necessary for maintenance.

Rob

[LMSFan72]

There is a terrific article in Hornby magazine from June 2015 that does this and allows for independent off of the red tail lights even with the limitations of the the TTS decoder being only 3 functions. I used it to do my Class 40 TTS.

[Chrissaf]

I want to add directional & headlights to class 40 (R3392TTS)  with came with TTS sound Dcc. please suggest me any kit which can be added to the current Dcc pins, if no kit is avaliable than how to add LED indivudually for direction and headlight, so they are DCC Controlled.

wiring pics will be helpful...

thanks

 

 

 

 

[Chrissaf]

Sandyiitm.

Your last reply in this thread had to be removed for technical reasons. For some reason it was corrupting the rest of the page and disabling the navigation links. I think it may have been the name of your attached image [index.png] that was causing the problem. I changed the name to something different when re-instating your image in this modified reply.

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Your original reply that you posted is duplicated below:

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"Thanks a lot guys" :)  for guiding and providing solution. what i understood is that i have 3 function sound decoder on my hornby class 40 TTS Loco. but below come a new problem i have seen hornby magzine and the link .Now which one to follow, what is advange of using hornby mazine versus website link.

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[LMSFan72]

Hi, the difference is that in the digram above you have head and tail lights on together. Although you can turn the lights on and off the head and tail lights work as pairs so you cannot have head lights on and tail lights off. When a loco is running light (no carriages or wagons) in real life it would have the tail lights on but when pulling a train it would not have the tail lights on. You cannot recreate this with the above circuit. The hornby magazine allows the tail lights to be turned off when the headlights are on. The other difference is in the above diagram the 3rd function (green) is used to turn on an interior cab or coach light. In the magazine article the green controls turning the tail lights off so you would not be able to control an interior light.

[Fishmanoz]

So this logic, which I'm not questioning LMS, says every 2-function and above decoder has it wrong.  It's quite standard that the white wire is set up to run forward and rear lights together when the loco is going forward and the yellow wire to do the same when the loco is going in reverse.  Which I'm assuming is the point of the article to"fix" this. 

[LMSFan72]

Hi, Fishmanoz, hmmmm,.....possibly, it depends what we are referring to as wrong: we might be describing different things.

 

If I use standard function colours as you describe: white is F0 fwd, yellow is F0 rev. With opposite end pairs connected - head1 and tail2 - to one wire and head2 and tail1 to the other you get exactly what most ready to run locos have - correct functioning directional lights at both ends. However, it is only correct if the loco is not pulling a train. In real life when a train is being pulled the tail lights are turned off. I imagine, for simplicity and cost, this part is not done. Some manufacturers put switches underneath the loco to be able to manually switch these off. Very few have it on a decoder function.

 

Of course, there is a lot more functionality that can be done to make them more prototypical but I am sure for most of us we are happy to have directional lights.

 

Many people use a 4 function decoder to have full independent control of the tail lights. These would be connected individually. For example, head1 to white, head2 to yellow, tail1 to green and tail2 to violet. This gives directional headlights but completely independent tails. One end, both ends and neither end tail lights can then be switched with or without head lights. However a 3 function decoder, like a TTS only has the green wire and function, not the violet one. 

 

The magazine article describes how to use a transistor as a switch to turn the tail light part of the white and yellow circuits off. This just needs one function. it only allows the tails to be on when the head lights are on. It doesn't give independent control of both tail ends. 

 

So, they are both "wrong" if you want to operate scenarios that they cannot, but, the article gave a nice little bit of extra functionality for me!

[96RAF]

Due to the tech fault on this page this is the first chance I have had to throw my 2 pennyworth into the ring.

 

In the meantime LMS72 has put several of the points I was going to make.

 

I dont have access to the subject article so I would need a picture of the propsed wiring to comment.

 

There are so many prototype variations in directional and other lighting what we cal standard directional lighting per the NMRA standard wiring code is obviously a compromise, especially for limited function decoders.

 

Taking UK we have reds at both ends when parked, we have assymetric day/night headlights and various markers according to loco type, cab lights, engine compartment lights, etc.

 

Looking at US operations we have Rule 17 dimming, flashing ditch lights at crossings, MARS lights, other beacons, truck (bogie) lights, etc.

 

None of this takes account of any special effects you may wish to add like electric rail shoe sparks, fog detonators, etc.

 

Then we can talk about function mapping (decoder dependant) which can allow many of the required lighting nuances to be accopmlished by programming relevant CVs.

 

That said if a simple electronic circuit can add function to a 3-function decoder for those that want it, then fine by me.

Rob

[Howbi]

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This is Hornby Mag circuit as discussed..........HB.

[96RAF]

@HBM

Thanks.

Nice simple way of adding function.

I presume normal directional lighting works  on F0 until green wire is switched on F18/F25 (TTS) whereupon tail lights extinguish.

Rob

[Howbi]

@HBM

Thanks.

Nice simple way of adding function.

I presume normal directional lighting works  on F0 until green wire is switched on F18/F25 (TTS) whereupon tail lights extinguish.

Rob

Yes, article suggests F25 assigned to function3, green wire, to switch tail lights........HB

[Chrissaf]

Other way round Rob.

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When the Green function wire is 'ON' the transistor is 'ON' and the front and rear lights work normally under F0 forward/ reverse control.

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When the Green function wire is 'OFF' the transistor is 'OFF' and the red tail lights cannot light at all under any directional lighting condition.

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The reason the transistor switches t'other way round is because it is a PNP and not a NPN transistor. A PNP transistor switches on when the 'base' goes negative.

[96RAF]

@Chris

Got my beer goggles on so didn't spot the PNP/NPN switch.

A bit counter intuitive in my opinion. Things should be as is until commanded not as is.

i.e.Normal F0 directional lighting conditions apply until asked for rear lights out on TTS F25.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

Point of view I suppose Rob.

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I looked at from the point of view Function 3 (Green) is used to switch rear red lights 'on' & 'off'. i.e. Function 3 'on' Red lights 'on' and Function 3 'off' Red lights 'off'.

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But when 'on' they are under secondary control of the F0 directional lighting circuit.

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To my logically wired mind, this makes perfect sense.

[96RAF]

@Chris

That logic requires F3 (F28) to be set on as default and it isn't. all functions are off as default.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

My logic is that the red rear lights would normally be off because the loco is hauling coaches and/or wagons, and only switched on when the loco was travelling in isolation without any attached rolling stock.

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No different to me having to switch on my EMU interior lights as part of my EMU start up routine. They are normally off by default as are cab lights, directional lighting (F0), sound (F1) and other function controlled features. I have got used to switching on things as part of a loco starting up routine. In some ways no different to a real live driver.