Help needed with weird happenings.

[NormanQ4]

I’ve been testing my new Elink / RM layout with a Standard Class 3MT.

Up until yesterday all was well with the loco crossing 19 sets of electrofrog points in all directions without incident.

Today I decided to add a CotN and another loco and some carriages.

Picture 4 ovals with the Standard travelling clockwise on oval #4, the CotN travelling anti-clockwise on oval #2 and the other loco clockwise on oval #1.

I start the Standard with the CotN and the other loco stationary.

When the Standard reaches the first set of points it stops as though not getting any power from the frog.

When I push the Standard forward off the point the CotN takes off at full speed then stops after 1.5 metres and the other loco doesn’t move.

The Standard continues until it comes to the next set of points where it stops making a loud buzzing noise. When pushed off the point it restarts.

I’ve repeated this a few times with the same result.

I removed the other two locos from the track leaving just the Standard and tried to run this over many of the points with it stopping on around half indicating no power from the frog.

I’ve reinstalled RM, turned off and restarted the Elink and PC.

I then went through the running process again and got the exact same result.

The only thing I did between running the loco yesterday and today was go to bed.

[2e0dtoeric]

As a first guess, you have a crossed wire somewhere, but before the track was seriously used, a point was isolating the short, so it wasn't affecting the one loco. Now the bad contact has cleared, and the short is affecting things.

The 'paused on a point, buzzing' indicates conflicting instructions being recieved, plus the bit where you gave it a prod, and it shot off like a scared rabbit!

The buzzing could have been the motor trying to spin in both directions at once, like a dc loco on a DCC track.

[NormanQ4]

Thanks for the reply Eric, but the loco that took off like a scared rabbit was not requested to move, and while it was racing along the speed control remained on the bottom.

The one that I prodded just went at a normal pace.

[walkingthedog]

If a DCC loco gets a dodgy command due a short or grubby track for instance it thinks it is DC and takes off like a rocket.

[NormanQ4]

Hi WTD as I've just told Eric, the loco that took off did not get any command.

[walkingthedog]

I know but there is constant power to the track with DCC. All was well until you added a second loco, so when the first one stalled on the points it must have caused a short or similar that made the second loco leap into action. Does the second loco work OK with the first loco removed? 

[NormanQ4]

I haven't tried it, I will try it tomorrow morning (Aus) and let you know.

[walkingthedog]

Oki doki  😀

[96RAF]

I would check that DC running is disabled in CV29 on C of the N. It is usually set to on as default.

 

To do this in RM read the CVs then double click (maybe right click)  the value of CV29 and a tick box will open. Amend as required and write the new value.

[Fishmanoz]

I'm with 2e0 that you have a wiring problem and with WTD about DC Runaway.  When you push your 3MT across the point, you must be getting a momentary short, or maybe just a little transient voltage appearing when it makes contact again, and this setting off the CoN.  The decoder in the 3rd loco must be less sensitive so it behaves.

 

As said above DC Runaway is the decoder thinking it's on a DC track and, as DCC puts full power to the track all the time, the loco takes off and can't be stopped until the power is removed.  But your CoN stops, so that tells us either it reaches a part of your track with no power, or you are getting a short causing your eLink to reset and switch off the power (check on your RM screen for what the eLink is doing). 

 

So so I think you've mis-wired something, meaning you will have to check it all, or possibly the back to back of the wheels on a loco is out causing a short when crossing a point.  You can check by disconnecting your points frog switching one by one and see if removing a particular one fixes the problem.  Then I would google DCC friendly points to see the optimum way to do your wiring to avoid shorts.

 

Tell us how you go, we are going to need info about what you have tried to help further. 

[Chrissaf]

You say you have Electrofrog points. Have you followed PECO recommended guidelines and fitted Insulated Rail Joiners to both frog rails. See image below for proof of this statement. Fitting IRJs may also require the implementation of additional DCC power droppers to be fitted to cover the track power dead spots. The PECO extract below is for Code 83 Electrofrog rail, but equally applicable to Code 100 as well.

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/media/tinymce_upload/b07de1101a57e11f4d8438a219d46ea6.jpg

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Also as you have eLink, when you do get a transient 'short circuit' do you get a pop-up on your RM screen telling you so. If you don't, then you have got either incorrect or missing lines in your "railmaster.ini" file. When these lines are missing, there have been reports of 'strange unexplained things happening'. If you don't get the 'short circuit' pop-up, paste and post the contents of your .INI file here and they can be reviewed and commented on.

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EDIT: Please also advise as to whether you are using frog switching or not on your Electrofrog points.

[NormanQ4]

Thanks to all for your input.

 

I will answer your questions collectively.

I’ve changed CV29 on CotN so DC running is now disabled.

All three locos run ok, either separately or all at once (in fact have had six running).

B2B is ok.

Don’t always get short warning, so will delete and re-enter lines as suggested by Chris in a recent past post.

There are many droppers so no dead spots on track. Additional droppers added and IRJs after advice from Chris re. my track plan several months ago.

Points are wired as per Peco guidelines.

Frogs are wired via DCCconcepts ADS-2fx accessory decoder with the exception of opposing pairs, where one is wired to the SEEP motor switch (although I have had problems with these decoders in the recent past so suspect that this may be a source).

I think that I’m narrowing the shorting issue to a couple of points which had me puzzled since they only shorted occasionally.  I found that when a second point was in a certain position it impacted on the first point.

One example of this is the branch from the main line into the fiddle yard which was working fine and then all of a sudden it was causing a short. I found out purely by chance that this was due to one of the points in the fiddle yard being in a different position.

I think Eric’s comment re. a point isolating a short seems on the money.

On the whole things are now looking much brighter and trains are running without incident most of the time.

 

Here is a copy of my .INI file (hope it helps)

Tipper speed=80

Tipper timer=86.4

Turntable speed=40

Turntable timer=23.56

Points timer=0.75

Conveyor speed=65

TCP start port=30

Check serial ports=1

Show upgrade button=1

Allow deactivate=1

Use default curves=1

Polling time=5

Confirm delete=1

Classic buttons=0

Show point indicators=1

Uncoupler time=5

Detection Timeout=5

Button bar vertical=0

Throttle timer=5

Handheld plan area=1,1,135,135

Program tick sound=1

PING time=60

Reset eLink on start=1

Enable mouse=0

Warn static IP=1

Load Hornby Locos=1

Load Jouef Locos=0

Load Rivarossi Locos=0

Load Electrotren Locos=0

Load Arnold Locos=0

Load Bassett-Lowke Locos=0

Point button arrows=0

Spoken confirmation=0

Controllers on top=1

Double pulse=0

Alternative Comms=1

Check controller=1

Elite feedback=0

Arnold RailMaster=0

[Chrissaf]

You seem to have covered all the bases. I do recommend moving the Alternative comms and Check controller lines to the end of the file as the last two entries (you have indicated you plan to do this anyway). You might want to try Double pulse=1 to ensure that points (including frog switches) fully switch over when fired. This might help eliminate tthe times when you have found points not switched properly.