Decoders problems?

[Steve Lloyd Cole]

I have recently acquired two A4 DCC TTS, after a considerable time weighing up sound and I have registered the decoders to different addresses yet find that when I operate the Mallard it also controls the Gadwall, but in reverse to the direction of the Mallard!  However when I operate Gadwall it only operates that loco! I am operating Viessman Commander system and have tried selecting and removing from database, allocating new address codes but still with the same result. It is driving me nuts trying to solve, any help appreciated, I am not a great at DCC but thought I was doing OK until this issue, any help fully appreciated.

[Chrissaf]

Although your locos are Hornby, the controller is not. Apart from suggesting that you factory reset the Hornby A4s and start again (write 8 to CV8), you are unlikely to find anybody on this forum who will be familiar with your Viessman controller system who could possibly give you any further controller related advice.

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It does seem strange, that the fault is not reciprocal (symmetric) in that the Mallard operates the Gadwell but not the other way round.

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The TTS decoders are propriety to Hornby (although they should in theory, be NMRA compliant). Therefore a possibility that they have issues with your Viesmann controller.

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Could there possibly be some form of corrupted 'consist' configuration for these two locos in your controller. I ask this because with a 'consist', it is not unusual for the other loco in the 'consist' to need to go in reverse direction (for example when the two locos are coupled 'back to back'). Again, following through on the 'consist' theory. Maybe the Mallard has the Gadwell as a 'consist' but the Gadwell does not reciprocally have the Mallard as a 'consist'. This could possibly explain why operating the Gadwell using it's address does not operate Mallard. Without knowing more about your Viesmann controller features, this theory is pure guesswork. Could you be recycling old addresses that have been used before with your controller in a 'consist' configuration and that theses configuration settings are still saved in the controller. Although, some 'consist' configuration may more normally be saved in the decoder, there may also be some settings saved in the controller as well.

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Does your Viesmann controller have a 'factory reset' option you could use (have a look in your controller manual). Performing a controller 'factory reset' should remove any old configurations still lurking somewhere inside it.

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Do you have any access to another controller brand you could borrow from somebody for testing purposes?

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It might possibly help if you were to state exactly what addresses you have configured in the two locos. That exhibit this unusual behaviour.

[Howbi]

@Steve..........did you address each loco separately on the programming track........if they were both on the track at the same time then that could be the problem.......HB

[Fishmanoz]

Not sure about your possibility HB given one will operate without the other. Chris's consist theory seems more likely. I agree he's to reset the decoders and the controller and start again.  That should certainly remove any consist and reverse direction. 

[Steve Lloyd Cole]

 Thanks for the input guys, Mallard and Gadwell decoders have been reset against the loco numbers so different, both were set up on a programming track seperately before then going onto the main track. I will try to reset the decoders again on the programming track back to factory settings, I would not want to reset the Commander as I would lose all the other data and track plan that I have spent many hours inputting!

I have been researching and CV 19 it would appear to be the consist CV so will look at that tonight and try also to adjust, thanks for the advice so far I wil keep you posted tomorrow.

 

Steve 

[Fishmanoz]

Slightly confused by your reply SLC as you don't reset a decoder by changing the loco ID.  You reset it by writing 8 to CV8.  Once you've done that, everything is back at its default value, including loco ID back to 03 and CV19 at no consist. You'll then have to reprogram the IDs.  It's also a good idea to check the value of CV29 after you've reset the decoder, then again after changing the ID to what you want it to be.

[Steve Lloyd Cole]

 Just an update really, managed to reset both locos back to origianl settings, then checked both on an Bachmann EZ digital control unit and both ran fine independently.  Then reconnected the Commander back to my track and programming track and reloaded the two locos back onto that system via programming track independently, problem still persists!  So clearly the fault lies within the Viessman system somewhere and I am trying to get some help from their support team but without any luck at present, if anyone can point me in the right direction UK wise for support that would be great.

[96RAF]

I have just been reading the 37 page quick start guide for the Commander and it is a complex beast. The full manual is a good long read so  I didn't bother downloading that. There is also a hotline.

See here for info...

http://www.viessmann-modell.com/index.php?show=categories&cPath=571_158&cId=158&lang=en

 

The controller has some features that the more basic controllers do not have which affect our standard fault finding advice in that...

You can run a loco on the programming track as well as the main.

You populate a loco data card and lodge it in the controller database, else you can't operate it later and then write that data to the loco decoder.

Place a loco on the programming track and the controller automatically identifies the decoder and it's set address and displays this information.

If I have read it right the controller can only automatically access CVs 1-8 and 28/29.

You can run locos in database mode or direct mode.

 

Following a quick scan of this guide I wonder if you have lodged the errant loco into the controller database as well as writing the new address, etc.

 

Have you actually fully deleted he dodgy loco and then resisted it.

 

Have you tried running this loco in both fancy screen and direct keyboard modes.

Hope this helps

Rob

[Steve Lloyd Cole]

I have just been reading the 37 page quick start guide for the Commander and it is a complex beast. The full manual is a good long read so  I didn't bother downloading that. There is also a hotline.

See here for info...

http://www.viessmann-modell.com/index.php?show=categories&cPath=571_158&cId=158&lang=en

 

The controller has some features that the more basic controllers do not have which affect our standard fault finding advice in that...

You can run a loco on the programming track as well as the main.

You populate a loco data card and lodge it in the controller database, else you can't operate it later and then write that data to the loco decoder.

Place a loco on the programming track and the controller automatically identifies the decoder and it's set address and displays this information.

If I have read it right the controller can only automatically access CVs 1-8 and 28/29.

You can run locos in database mode or direct mode.

 

Following a quick scan of this guide I wonder if you have lodged the errant loco into the controller database as well as writing the new address, etc.

 

Have you actually fully deleted he dodgy loco and then resisted it.

 

Have you tried running this loco in both fancy screen and direct keyboard modes.

Hope this helps

Rob

Hi Rob,  I have the full manual downloaded and I have never had issues in the past, I have been using the system for the past 6 months with no issues (actually bought it several years ago whilst I was based in Germany with the Army) all other locos I have, have not had any issues with, have deleted both fully and re-instated the locos but the fault is just re-appearing which is making running both loco's not an opion at present, it is not replicated with any other locos I have which given these are my first sound locos I have bought got me wondering if it had any connection.

I have emailed Viessman but have yet to receive a reply, the recoding and resetting of the decoders is complicated and the instructions are not the best (in  my opinion) so it has been a bit trail and error in the past but I think I am now able to do basic adjustments quite well.  Not tried the direct mode but will tonight, there is something I think in the Viesssman system that is causing the issues as the Mallard when I look at screen info has the loco address showing but the Gadwall has the loco address followed by MT1 I think.

 

Thanks for assistance.  

 

[IJG]

On a slightly different note but a similer tts decoder issue.  I have a Class 31 decoder which i have fitted to a Heljan locomotive which is running very erractically. The locomotive was run in and then fitted with a non sound gaugemaster decoder which allowed the locomotive to run very smoothly and has been doing so for the last few months.  I fittted the tts decoder and the locomotive is now running very jerkily.  The sound and light functions work fine, it is just the running of the locomotive that is an issue.  I am using Railmaster on Windows 10 and the only inconsistancy I had when programming the decoder was that I couldn't find it on the database so had to manually input the sound functions.  The locomotive has been running for 30 minutes like that with no real improvement.

Could it be the Hornby decoders don't really like non hornby locomotives or control systems?.

[Howbi]

@IJG.............I have installed a TTS decoder into a Heljan Class 47 loco.......I found it ran much better when the Motor Control algorithm was changed to #2...........this simply involves changing CV150 (default =0) to CV150=1........worth a try.............HB

[IJG]

@IJG.............I have installed a TTS decoder into a Heljan Class 47 loco.......I found it ran much better when the Motor Control algorithm was changed to #2...........this simply involves changing CV150 (default =0) to CV150=1........worth a try.............HB

Thanks howbiman I shall give it a go and let you know.  

[Fishmanoz]

IJG, have you updated to the latest v1.66 via the link at the top of the RM forum, that should have solved the lack of sound functions and avoided having to enter them manually?

 

PS.  Could you also please stop using the blue quote button for your replies, it just keeps copying everyone's posts to no effect.  Use the text box at the bottom of the page and the green reply button, as I have just done. 

[IJG]

I shall check which version I am running Fishmanoz and you advice about the green reply button is noted :o)

[IJG]

My thanks to Howbiman, I.ve changed CV150 as advised and the locomotive is running much smoother now and to Fishmanoz, Railmaster fully updated and sound functions fully populated.  Thankyou Gents

[Fishmanoz]

Glad it's fixed IJG.

[Jtr166]

I have had little success running Hornby Decoders , A class 56 failed after 5 minutes running .and  a Hitachi EMU was dead out of the box as well as other problems  I now replace any Hornby decoders with Digitrax , usually DH165ip or DZ123ps for non sound and ESU Loksound 4 for sound equipped . I use JMRI through a Digitrax PR3 or the ESU programmer and software.