Finally the rip off sound decoder barrier is broken.

[The son of Triangman]

Hornby are now doing TTS decoders seperately, finally the days of the rip off prices for sound decoders are over.

[Howbi]

Where have you been, SoT, we've known that for several months............. 😮...........HB

[Bulleidboy]

I don't think that the sound decoders currently available are a rip-off. You get what you pay for. The Hornby TTS Decoders are OK - but there not brilliant. That is not meant as a criticism, many will be very happy with the sound produced, but you only have to go through numerous forums to find people who have replaced the Hornby supplied speaker with something different - and there are many available - more bass for example. I have a Class 205 "Thumper" with sound - it wasn't cheap, but having seen the real thing everyday, until they were replaced, I have to say the sound is first class - just as I remember it. I have the A1/A3 TTS Decoder due for delivery any day from Hornby - this will go into the latest Flying Scotsman - but I may change the speaker. 

Hornby obviously realised there was a market for cheaper "Sound" loco's and TTS was the result - alot cheaper than the original sound loco's Hornby produced at about £260 a time. I also understand that the sound cannot be changed on the TTS range - again this will not be a problem to many.

[RDS]

Are any of the 4 available, suitable for a Royal Scot?

[96RAF]

I think what SoT was trying to say the long awaited retro TTS decoders are in the store, so those rip-outs by some retailers won't be selling for inflated prices any more.

 

@RDS Royal Scot is a three cylinder engine so an A4 would do at a push if the whistles are acceptable.

Rob

[RDS]

Thanks Rob

[2e0dtoeric]

I've said before, TTS is fine in a diesel outline loco, but getting the sound to match the motion in a steam outline loco is almost impossible.

[96RAF]

I've said before, TTS is fine in a diesel outline loco, but getting the sound to match the motion in a steam outline loco is almost impossible.

 

Once the wheels are turning faster than you can count spokes it's all irrelevant anyhow, just noise.

 

Rob

[trainlover23]

 Not if you want decent sound. The TTS sound is generic whilst those offered by South West Digital and others are recording of actual locos. Steam is all well and good but you can`t get it really working hard because of the 75MPH restriction.  

[Michael_A]

Horses for courses, matter of opinion.

 

When I can get a Railroad Gadwell for £70 including TTS, and a Class 31 TTS loco for even less, you wont hear me complaining.

 

But then I am from Yorkshire, and old, and my ears and eyes are failing anyway..........

[96RAF]

@ TL23

 

 TTS sound is generic whilst those offered by South West Digital and others are recording of actual locos.

Generic based on what assumption - Tornado is real. A4s are likely to be real as are some others in service. As stated previously where a loco is not alive today then it must be a studio fudge, even if based on an old recording. 

 

The way TTS works is a sound byte is generated for each group of speed steps and these are looped until the next adjacent increase in speed is signalled when that byte is played and looped. I don't see the full fat recordings being much different except for the bandwidth of the speed steps skipped by each recorded byte may be smaller. i.e. more bytes overall. I think I counted 18 separate lumps of noise for TTS steam.

 

The diesels are rigged such that they have several but fewer speed notches hence the same number of recorded bytes is all that is required. The window of change for when these notches can be altered is similar to Sport/Normal/Icy mode settings on some posh cars traction control, i.e. to adjust the speed step at which a notch occurs - all in the manual.

 

Rob

[Huwsie]

My Flying Scotsman had sound back in the 1970's - who remembers the 'sound box' built into the tender with a small metal clip on one axle that scraped over a spring strip that was connected to the sound box to produce the 'chuf'.. 

TTS is good, but as several here have said, the choice of quality is vast, and so are the costs.. better you want the more you'll pay..

[Slornie]

I don't think that the sound decoders currently available are a rip-off. You get what you pay for. The Hornby TTS Decoders are OK - but there not brilliant. That is not meant as a criticism, many will be very happy with the sound produced, but you only have to go through numerous forums to find people who have replaced the Hornby supplied speaker with something different - and there are many available 

 

Is the cost differential between TTS and other "full-fat" sound decoders mainly from the speaker or the actual decoder?  I always assumed (rightly or wrongly) that the speaker was the cheap bit, but also one that had greater impact.  All things being equal in speaker fidelity is there really that much difference in the quality of sound from different levels of decoder?

[Bulleidboy]

I think some speakers give a better base tone. My TTS A1/A3 system will arrive toorrow, I'll fit it and see how it sounds.

[WilliamDavid]

I have four Sugarcube speakers awaiting the delivery of four TTS decoders. The improvement in sound is well worth the £9 per speaker.

[morairamike]

My A4 TTS DECODER ARRIVES TOMORROW, But alas my track is being rebuilt so sound day will have to wait.

[Fishmanoz]

Slornie, to answer your question, there a number of factors to be considered including the speaker.  I'll try to summarize each.

 

You can start with the quality of the source sounds whether live or synthesised and fully representative of the loco in question.  Then how well they have been recorded, digitized and stored in the decoder.  In the decoders, it will be the number of bits used, the more the better and the more the more storage needed for them. Then how well the electronics turns this back into analog sound to go to the speaker without distortion, hopefully second order but if you turn it up loud, it will distort. 

 

Then there is is the number of tracks which determines how many sounds can be played at once.  With TTS or twin track, the answer is 2 with one track handling the running sounds, chuff etc and the other any other sound, like a whistle. Here the full function expensive ones have it over TTS in having many tracks to play many sounds at once.

 

Then there is synchronisation, and as already pointed out this comes down to the sound changing with speed steps because in DCC the throttle moves in finite jumps, not continuously as in DC.  Again you can economise on this by not changing every speed step (128) but every few.

 

Finally it's the speaker.  Here, physics is against you as you simply cannot produce real bass down to 20-30Hz at any realistic volume in the physical size of speaker available. You are more talking only down to 200-300Hz.  It also becomes subjective with what people perceive the sound to be here.  However, many report sugar cube to be better than the small convention speaker supplied with TTS.  Then there are also bass reflex designs where a port is used to bring the sound from the back of the speaker into phase with and so reinforcing the sound from the front of it (with conventional design, these are out of phase and so cancel each other out).

 

So there are lots of factors at play affecting the final sound you hear.  And you can expect price to be a factor in how well each of them are implemented. 

[96RAF]

Just to reinforce what Fishy has said.

 

You can fit the best speaker available, but it will only work within the bandwidth and frequency response of the amplifier supplying it, hence in TTS you are working to the finite limits of the decoder's accoustic capability.

 

That said the TTS default speaker isn't the best in the world so there is room for improvement, but if you are stuck with it then make sure it is installed as best as possible to stop pressure bleed front to back by sealing the enclosure including where the wires pass through.

 

(Those may not be the correct sound 'terms' but I know what I mean). 

Rob

[Fishmanoz]

(Me too Rob).

[jane1707819582]

I don't think that the sound decoders currently available are a rip-off. You get what you pay for. The Hornby TTS Decoders are OK - but there not brilliant. That is not meant as a criticism, many will be very happy with the sound produced, but you only have to go through numerous forums to find people who have replaced the Hornby supplied speaker with something different - and there are many available 

 

Is the cost differential between TTS and other "full-fat" sound decoders mainly from the speaker or the actual decoder?  I always assumed (rightly or wrongly) that the speaker was the cheap bit, but also one that had greater impact.  All things being equal in speaker fidelity is there really that much difference in the quality of sound from different levels of decoder?

the loksound v4 decoder can do so much more than producing sound .It has full function mapping ,abc braking,external vloume control ,servo control ,31 function outputs etc etc, all has a cost 

[jane1707819582]

So I see not all of them are out there yet and also bizarrely some of the TTS units are not available seperately. The southern S15 decoder isn't and in fact there is no Southern steam at all yet, and while fast trains do sound similar, as RAF66 says, the whistles surely vary from region to region (please don't mention the doppler effect).  Ido agree about poor speakers and again I'll defer to RAF 66 who gets creative with humbrol paint pots to amplify the sound in the same way a well designed speaker cabinet does for hi fi afficianados. ANyway we live in interesting times and I think Hornby will get the idea once we all start ordering them - for me I want the castle to go into Hogwarts castle (yes I know it's a Hall really).

have another look at hogwarts castle   😉

[Rule 1 Applies]

You can never get decently realistic reproduction of any locomotive-related sound from a speaker a couple of inches across in a moving plastic box. That's not just my opinion - that's the physical laws of acoustics.

 

Model railway equipment manufacturers have done a fine job of convincing many people that DCC sound represents a 'sound' (sorry) investment, but I am yet to hear any form of DCC sound at a model railway exhibition that sounds any more realistically like a railway locomotive than a rather angry hornet trapped in a Coke tin does.

 

I know nobody is making me buy it (and I'm not) and good luck to those whom are.

[Howbi]

@Rule 1 Applies............These Sound Decoders are just a novelty..........we are all experienced and intelligent enough to understand the shortcomings in these devices.........no doubt, thousands of modellers  get enjoyment from employing them on their layouts as I do..........so we don't need you to suggest we are all fools being parted from our money.........keep your unnecessary criticism to yourself..........go play trains........ 😀.........HB

[37lover]

Rule 1 Applies,

I find your post offensive and insulting and have consequently reported it.

[walkingthedog]

I dislike OO scale sound but many like it and it gives them a great deal of enjoyment. I really only like O gauge diesel sound. Maybe we are all fools to spend money on model railways but I love doing it.