Class 142 Pacer

[TM88]

I have an elderly Hornby class 142 ‘pacer’ in the orange GMPTE livery. It runs like a bag of spanner’s ( very similar to the real thing actually...! )

This particularly model is one of the old ones that has a motor situated in each of its 2 cars, and in my opinion contributes to its poorer performance- as often the motors can run slightly out of sync.

However, I was wondering if anyone has tried removing one of the motors, and just running just on the one...? If so, any feedback on the performance?

They are only small motors - so not entirely sure of the pulling power. I’m guessing the newer Pacers (with just the one motor per unit) run on different motors?

Thought I would ask before dismantling....

[LCDR]

 I have wired the two motors / pick-ups of the older version of the 142 in parallel so they both get power from four wheels rather than two. Of you use fine flexible wire it works OK, but you need to solder the wires in place.  It means the set is permanently coupled so will not go back in its packaging, but as it didn't have a box in the first place it didn't really matter, but it certainly improved its performance. The later models have couplings that transfer power from one car to the next so does the same thing.

 

Taking one of the motors out will not improve its performance .as it still leaves the problem of pick-up on one wheel set.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

TM88, welcome to the Hornby Forum.  😀

 

I don't have one of these. Been put off getting one, as I've heard nothing about them, apart from that they are rubbish. Not exactly sure how true this statement is, but with a statement like that, I don't want to try one out!  😉 😆

 

I would say if Hornby have fitted it with two motors, there must be a good reason, to help it run better, perhaps? I don't know, hence the question mark. If Hornby have done this, there must be a good reason and if I bought a locomotive or DMU with two motors, I would leave it like this, as there must be a good reason for this. I very much doubt Hornby would fit two motors to it, if it does not need it, as this makes the product cost more to produce and cost more for the consumer.

 

GNR-Gordon-4

[96RAF]

That isn’t terribly helpful to the OP Jacob.

 

Try reading your post with pertinent words swapped for BMW and/or car and  you will see what I mean.

 

Rob

[NWR-Gordon-4]

I thought it was helpful to TM88. I didn’t write about car’s or BMW’s in that post, I’m sure I didn’t. I typed it on my laptop not on my phone, so I can assure you that there’s no auto correcting in it.

 

GNR-Gordon-4

[LCDR]

 They are NOT rubbish! But the early ones had a problem because the two coaches were motorised individually and independently and the motors depended on pick up from only two wheels. (one for each rail) so any defect, dirt or irregularity meant one of the carriages lost power. This also made fitting DCC difficult / impossible.  Later versions however incorporated power connectors in the coupler so in effect the pick-up for both motors get the power from four out of the eight wheels (the other wheels have traction tyres) . This also meant they could be DCCed, the motors being in parallel. My modification was for the early version which didn't have the power transmission across the coupler.

 

The actual model is a reasonably good representation of the real train, the motors do not intrude into the passenger compartment. I have one of each type for the amusement of the grand-kids who travel in them between Harrogate and York occasionally.

 

[NWR-Gordon-4]

Are there not any seats inside of the models, or very little seating, because of the motor being in the way, LC&DR?

 

GNR-Gordon-4

[Buz]

Hi TM88

I have one of the older pacer units nice models if a bit modern  😢 for a small layout like mine.

DO NOT remove one of the motors if you do you will reduce any reliability factor it does have, and you will burn out the other one and not cure the real issue.

As LC&DR has said it is a pick up issue the pick up set up and wiring is not well thought out and was probably done on the cheap only one pair of wheels per car pick up.

You could do what LC&DR has suggested which works well or as an alternative fit viesmann conductive couplers between the two cars.

Make sure you get the wiring right this does the same thing but you can split the cars apart if you need to.

regards John

[LCDR]

 The Pacer DOES have a seating unit, in each car and as I said earlier the motor is low enough so it  does not impinge on it. Each car body moulding is identical but the glazing and interior differ to represent the lavatory compartment in one of the cars.  Apart from the problem with pick-ups the model is pretty good especially as it dates from 1989.

[Rana Temporia]

The reason there are two motors is that each car picks up off both wheels on one side and only one on the other. This means that at some point the only pick-up wheel will be on dirt/plastic frog/other blockage to current flow. The original idea of Hornby was that the other car would pull/push the other one so that it woudln’t stall, hence the two motors. The only way to improve performance is to electrically connect the two cars with some VERY flexible wire. Once this has been done some people have removed one of the motors and had a good experience but if you do it with the electrical circuit as it is the unit will stall constantly. If you are Ok with soldering you can araldite a bit of circuit board near the ‘dead’ wheel and install a pick up to it, passing a wire up through the floor to the existing motor and solder it to that, you have one more pick-up per coach then. 

As for appearance i think these are good for when they were designed and once they are running OK I am happy with them. I have one blue and one orange,unit. Unfortunately the real units are still in use in the Bolton/Wigan area but we will miss them when they’ve gone. 

[2e0dtoeric]

I have a blue pair, and hard-wired them across, years ago, as suggested in an earlier post.

That cured the 'staggering' performance!  😛

[TM88]

Thanks for all the advice and welcomes! All extremely useful to hear.

long time reader - first time poster!

Going on this it sounds like perhaps wiring the two carriages together may be the best option in terms of reliability. I have seen this mentioned before, I never have any need to split the loco so could be a good move.

It’s a great loco which as someone previously said has a great likeness to the real thing- I could do just do with it running a little bit better.

I suppose some more regular servicing wouldn’t go amiss either

[Buz]

Hi TM88

Once the wiring issue is sorted it should run well.

It would definatly benefit from a good wheel clean and very careful pick up clean while your at it.

After that normal routine periodic clean etc etc will be fine.

Untill you buy the same matching set second hand so you can run a full service with the little beasties 😆 .

Then it will be time to do the same again 😎 😆 and add a suitable tiny station on your layout somewhere for increased service?

regards John

[LCDR]

 I was working in the Regional Control Office at Newcastle Central when we replaced our ageing class 101 DMMUs with new class 143 units fresh from Andrew Barclay's works at Kilmarnock. Similar to the 142 class these had Alexander made bodywork instead of Leyland and the chassis was Barclay design, but apart from the shape of the body  broadly they were identical. Our joy at getting brand new trains was very short lived however. They started failing in service and in depot, and levels of  train cancellation climbed up to the level previously experienced with rhe 101s and then quickly exceeded it.

 

The faults were numerous. The door safety interlock caused power failures, as they passed high speed trains travelling in the opposite direction, the engine oil pump failed causing engine seizures, the gear boxes stopped working, and the brakes didn't work. These were cable operated much like a bicycle brake and the inner cable rusted and jammed in the outer sheath.

 

Desperate for replacements many of the 101s which were stored at Heaton waiting to go off to the scrap yard were brought back into service and similar units spare in South Wales were drafted in complete with Red Dragon symbols painted on the yellow cab fronts. We even used a class 47 and three carriages shuttling between Middlesborough and Carlisle to cover diagrams.

 

In the end the trains were sent back to works and rebuilt to fix the faults.

 

The 142s were not quite so bad, but they too had their problems.  We eventually got a few of them to replace the 143s including some in brown & cream livery from the South West.  The 143s were eventually drafted to South Wales for use in the Valleys. In their place we got class 155 units split into individual cars with a tiny driver's  cab grafted on the blind end. These were redesignated class 153. We also got some class 156 bogie DMMUs which were 1000% better.

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The Brown and Cream 142s were named "Skippers".....

 

The West Country branches they were sent to had some sharp curves, and the long wheelbase 142s did not like them...

 

"Squealers" was a better name!

 

The flange and rail wear soon caused the "Skippers" to skip off to pastures new! 😉

[Rye 323]

I have six of these 142's and 4 of them are still in the original state, with this issue, My most modern Merseyrail one however has a Electrical Clip Joining them together, Still after the Skipper but, i noticed something rather odd about my Recent Aquisation, My GMPTE red black 142 has been altered to have the same cross-electrical connections like spoken about above,

im no Expert in wiring, models and getting it thrown down my back that i could lower the value of my Model   also leaves a uncomfortable feeling, so my question is : is there anyone that could point us towards a guide on how to do this process. many thanks.

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[Modelnut19]

I have several, one being a later made in China version with a single motor. This runs the best but they all run at least tolerable. Before doing anything too drastic and, assuming you have not done so already, I would start with giving the model a good service (i.e. wheel cleaning, careful lubrication of the motor, checking for fluff, checking the pick-ups, etc.).

I wish you success.

[ColinB]

If you want to join the two units together why don't you use one of those JST connectors. They do a two pin version and it is what Hornby used to use between Loco and Tender on their early DC ready Britannias. You can get them off EBay. I upgraded my Britannias to the latest 4 pin connector as I added sound in the tender, so I used the old two pin connectors to connect loco and tender together on my Ringfield based tender driven A4. It is so small you can hardly see it.

[Metradio]

If you want to join the two units together why don't you use one of those JST connectors. They do a two pin version and it is what Hornby used to use between Loco and Tender on their early DC ready Britannias. You can get them off EBay. ........

Have just modified a 2 motor Hornby Yellow Tyne & Wear Pacer 142 pair using a 2 pin JST connector, the larger part of the connector glued to the underneath of one of the plastic couplers, they are fiddly to connect but pull apart in tandem with the coupler.

I have also fitted a Hornby 4 pin DCC decoder in each end, the decoders were Blacktacked to the passenger side of the drivers interconnecting door and a hole made in the floor for the wiring and 4 pin connector to pass through. I was going to hard wire the decoder but decided to add a matching 4 pin plug for each end  motor wiring. Both decoders were programmed identically including the address.. They run surprisingly well :)

 

[Orangeandblacktrain]

I bought a Regional Railways Class 142 yesterday. It is the 2 engine model but it also has an electrical connection in the couplings. I'am guessing the shop i bought it from got them installed as the older models don't have these electrical couplings.I'am happy with this as you say it in theory will help performance.

One thing I'd like to bring up is some people saying you have to leave the trains joined together when there is an electric connection between.However, i'd say that you can take them apart and put them together again if you are careful, they were designed to come apart and join again.

 

Thanks

[96RAF]

That electrical,connection looks like a product update. The service sheet (if updated over the years) could well help explain it.

 

Edit

SS 233 (non dcc) and SS 319 (DCC) clearly show the wired couplings so it should be easy enough to convert older non wired couplings and/or convert to an 8-pin DCC socket.

[Going Spare]

The fly in the ointment, once again, is that the Pacer wired couplings have not been available for a very, very long time, so plug/socket varieties will be needed unless someone has managed to convert other Hornby dmu/emu bar couplings

[Orangeandblacktrain]

The fly in the ointment, once again, is that the Pacer wired couplings have not been available for a very, very long time, so plug/socket varieties will be needed unless someone has managed to convert other Hornby dmu/emu bar couplings

What do you mean by plug/socket couplings?

Do you have a link to them and will they be suitable for the Class 142?

 

Thanks

[Orangeandblacktrain]

The fly in the ointment, once again, is that the Pacer wired couplings have not been available for a very, very long time, so plug/socket varieties will be needed unless someone has managed to convert other Hornby dmu/emu bar couplings

What do you mean by plug/socket couplings?

Do you have a link to them and will they be suitable for the Class 142?

 

Thanks

 

By the way this is the state of my broken train..

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The coupling is a right off, and spare ones are impossible to find, would another coupling work on it?

[Going Spare]

I was thinking of the electical plug/socket arrangements mentioned earlier in this thread, utilised alongside the non-electrical drawbar.  ColinB or RAF96 may have further information, I have no direct knowledge.