smoking effect trains

[Nick73]

Hi new to all this got a couple of train sets the majestic and the flying scotsman I'd love to have a loco that gives off smoke is this something that's possible can't seem to find much info on it any help would be appreciated 

Nick

[Chrissaf]

There are loads of posts on this forum about adding 'smoke' to a loco. Its a 'Marmite' thing. People either love it or hate it.

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On the 'hate side', locos that have smoke capabilities leave oil residue from the process all over the track and layout. The smoke is heavier than air and the oil residue comes from the fact that oil is used to create the smoke in the heat chamber. The smoke quickly falls back over the loco itself and the surrounding track and layout, leaving an oily coating residue behind.

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Search the forum for the term "Seuthe" to find more posts on the topic.

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In my opinion, it is easier to add smoke to a DC Analogue loco than it is a DCC one with a decoder, but that is because the Seuthe smoke unit typically requires more than 100mA of current and most decoder functions are maxed out at 100mA. So you then need to find a decoder that can support a higher than 100mA function current or has a specific smoke supporting function output (some do...... but not Hornby decoders).

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The other issue is that the Seuthe unit has the potential to melt the light weight plastics used in more modern locos. The older locos tended to be made of plastics that can tolerate higher heat levels.

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Another Con, is that the Smoke effect is actually not that realistic.

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I struggle to find any 'Pros' if I am honest.........maybe other forum members can think of some.

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[Ruffnut Thorston]

Smoke units in UK locos are not now very common.

 

The 1960s were the heyday of Tri-ang Railways and Tri-ang Hornby Smoke fitted locomotives.

 

1961 to 1963 for the earlier Seuthe Pattern units...

 

Then 1964 to around 1974 for the later Synchrosmoke units.

 

Hornby Railways had some smoke unit fitted locomotives in the early 1980s, there were the four 4-4-0 locomotives in 1981, for example.

 

Seuthe still make smoke units...and the special vaporising oil for them...

 

Other makes are available...

 

Edit: Chris posted while I was typing! 😉

[morairamike]

Look here http://www.gaugemaster.com/seuthe.html

They have a list of the different ones. As pointed out beware melting of the loco. They arent synced to pistons. As said marmite thing.

[walkingthedog]

I think it looks dreadful. Smoke and steam is generally blasted out of a loco, as Chris said this stuff rises about  2 inches then drops  to the  ground in lumps. There are just some  things you can't realistically model.

[JJ73]

Just stuff a bit of cotton wool down the chimney!!!  😆 😉

[81F]

 I had the 1980s Hornby smoke generating locos The County 4-4-0 and 28XX both tender driven versions. I found filling through the chimney trickey/messy and the uniot did not "Chuf" it just "smouldered" like a cigaret in an ash tray.

 

In the end I cleaned up the bodies and took the smoke units out!

[walkingthedog]

Jj I think your idea looks more realistic. 

[96RAF]

Artificial flower in a chimney pot...long lens.

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[JJ73]

Thasnk you W. T. D.  😀

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The 1980s Hornby units were a throwback to the 1961 Seuthe type design, in that all they were were a tank for the smoke oil and a heating element.

 

The Synchrosmoke units have a piston driven from the motor worm, that puffs air into the enclosed smoke unit 'box', forcing the vapourised oil 'smoke' out of a hole below the chimney...

 

In 1964, the Seuthe type smoke units used in Tri-ang Railways locomotives from 1961 were mainly replaced by the introducton of Synchrosmoke units. these were also known earlier on as Synkro-smoke, and other variations in spelling, etc.

 

 

The exceptions were the locomotives where the Synchrosmoke units could not be fitted, such as the S.R. L1 4-4-0, and the G.W.R. Lord of The Isles 4-2-2.

 

The Synchrosmoke units use a cast metal box, with a piston in a cylinder to push air into the box driven by a gear wheel, which is driven by the motor worm.The box contains a wadding material, and on top of this is a heating element, that looks a little like a fuse, with a metal conducting cap on each end.The element is wired in parallel to the loco motor, so the amount of voltage, and therefore heat was governed by the speed control setting.The air forced into the box by the piston expels the smoke in "puffs" that are synchronised to the driving wheel speed by the gear drive.

Complicated to describe, but it works!

Some Examples of Synchrosmoke fitted locomotives.

R.51S G.W.R. 0-6-0 Pannier Tank Locos (1972)

R.051 G.W.R. 0-6-0 Pannier Tank Locos (1973-1974)

R.52S B.R. "Jinty" 3f 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1964-1972)

R.052 B.R. "Jinty" 3f 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1973-1975)

R.52AS L.M.S. Maroon "Jinty" 3f 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1970-1973)

R.52RS L.M.S. Maroon "Jinty" 3f 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1970-1973)

R.54S "T.C. Series" Transcontinental Pacific Tender Locos.(1964-1970)

R.54NS "T.C. Series" Transcontinental Pacific Tender Locos. "1542" late production models with 8-wheel "Gresley" "Flying Scotsman" Non Corridor Type tender fitted with Exhaust Steam Sound (1971-1973)

R.59S B.R. Class 3MT 2-6-2 Tank Locos (1969-1972)

R.150S B.R. B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos (1964-1969)

R.150NS N.E. Black "7476" B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos with Exhaust Steam Sound (1976-1978)

R.251S B.R. Lined Black "Deeley" Ex L.M.S. Class 3F 0-6-0 Tender Locos (1964-1965)

R.259S B.R. Britannia Class 7 4-6-2 Tender locos (1964-1970)

R.259NS B.R. Britannia Class 7 4-6-2 Tender locos with Exhaust Steam Sound (1971-1972)

R.258S B.R. Lined Maroon Princess Royal class 8p 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1964 & 1969)

R.258S L.M.S. Maroon Princess Royal class 8p 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1970)

R.258NS L.M.S. Maroon Princess Royal class 8p 4-6-2 Tender Locos with Exhaust Steam Sound (1971-1974)

R.356S B.R. Battle of Britain Class 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1964-1969)

R.377S G.N.S.R. Brown "Jinty" 0-6-0 Tank Locos from "The Railway Children" train set. (1970-1972)

R.452 L.M.S. Maroon "Jinty" 3f 0-6-0 Tank Locos (1973-1974)

R.558S Battle Space Khaki "Jinty" 3f 0-6-0 Tank Locos from the "Strike Force 10" Train Set (1966-1967)

R.661S  Weathered B.R. Lined Black "Deeley" Ex L.M.S. Class 3F 0-6-0 Tender Locos from the “Old Smokey" Train Set (1965)

R.653S "T.C. Series" Continental "Prairie" 2-6-2 Tank Loco (Red frames and wheels, two domes) (1969)

R.866S L.N.E.R. Green B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos (1970)

R.866NS L.N.E.R. Green B12 4-6-0 Tender Locos with Exhaust Steam Sound (1971-1974)

R.869S S.R. Battle of Britain Class 4-6-2 Tender Locos (1969-1972)

etc... 

 

It is important to only use proper model railway "Smoke Oil" in the smoke units, to avoid problems, including possible element damage.

 

 

The smoke oil marketed by Tri-ang and Hornby has come in a variety of plastic tubes and sachets over the years. The last Hornby issue I have seen was a small plastic "pot" with a screw lid (R.8111).

 

 

Until the Hornby "Pot", the various containers of Smoke Oil had the part number R.521, including the sachets sold by Hornby to go with the later Smoke fitted locos that use a plastic smoke unit, including the LMS 8F 2-8-0, GWR 28XX 2-8-0 and the 1981 issued 4-4-0s (SR Schools, Midland Compound, GWR County, and LNER Shire).

 

 

 

[Huwsie]

I have installed a smoke unit well inside one of the tunnels, and when it's running as each train exits the tunnel it brings with it a haze of smoke... diesel or steam train, it's a good effect because of course the rain diffuses the smoke on it's way through the tunnel and drags it out a s a haze.

I've had no sucess with smoke units installed in trains, so this was a way to utilize what I had laying around.

[LCDR]

I was watching a DVD of trains on the Swanage branch yesterday, and there was a M7 pulling and pushing two carriages and not a trace of steam or smoke at any time! 

 

A well fired locomotive should NOT produce noticable amount of smoke, production of which is usually a sign of wasted fuel. Steam on the other hand will be visible if the atmosphere is cool but on warm summer's days it remains as an invisible vapour until it has dissapated. 

 

Enthusiast like a load of 'clag', but to professional railwaymen it is a sign of incompetence. 

[ColinB]

I like the idea of smoke in a loco and with DCC you can turn it on or off. I have one loco with it fitted and a few old analogue locos from the early 80's when Hornby fitted it. I would agree with the posts that say it is messy, although the modern smoke oil is a lot better, a bigger issue is the heat, it tends to distort loco bodies.On the early Horby locos they fitted a foil protector, but on mine it twisted round and blocked the chimney, when I removed it, it distorted the body. If you could mount it on a metal chassis that might help with the heat disapation, but then you get the insides of the loco full of waste oil. As for DCC, my Bachmann A4 loco uses a 9 pin ( yes a 9 pin) DCC module made by Hattons, I bought the loco second hand so I do not know its history, it smokes well, but does not run that well, which is probably why it was for sale.

[ColinB]

That did actually happen with a "Mainline" loco I had converted to DCC. I had fitted a 6 pin DCC decoder, and the loco was running a bit intermittantly then it just started smoking. Sadly it is only a "one shot" event. As for the decoder I am still trying to find out from manufacturer why it did this.

[walkingthedog]

I saw a layout at Eastleigh a few years ago where the chap had a smoke generator under the layout. It was a model of a loco sheds and at certain places where locos would be stationary the smoke/steam eminated from beneath the loco.