railroad hst

[graham_scholes]

just arrived hst railroad last monday.order ddc/sound chip to be put in train (tts) but the local model shop says there is no room for a sound chip.

 

[96RAF]

If the Railroad model, which I believe is based on the old Lima model,  is like other Railroad diesels then there is ample room for a sound decoder and speaker in there.

 

Even the central motor all wheel drive model which is a bit space limited can be fitted with a suitable speaker.

 

What does the maintenance sheet provided with the model say about fitting a decoder.

 

I would respectfully suggest your local model shop does not have a clue.

[ColinB]

I gather Hornby on the Railroad versions are either using the old Hornby mouldings or the Lima ones. In each case there is tons of room to put a sound decoder, in fact I have just added one to my old Hornby HST with a ringfield motor. For a neat job, you might find the loudspeaker is a bit big, but if you are not worried about neatness then it is OK. Perhaps he didn't want to job, if you are adding a TTS sound decoder and the HST is DC Ready then the most difficult bit is getting the body off the loco. Make sure you insulate the circuit board.

[walkingthedog]

Generally the 'man in the model shop' gives nothing but duff gen.

[TrainDriverJ]

The model shop is correct. If you buy the new HST railroad model the HST TTS sound decoder (which is in twin pack only), as is, will not fit anywhere in the model (although there is ample room overall) with it’s speaker attached without modification to the plastic shell inside the model. The dummy car has no decoder connection (or any connections of any kind) for a second decoder and, therefore, would require extensive modification to accept one.

 

The operating and maintenance instructions supplied with the model mentions that it is DCC ready with a picture of the socket.

[96RAF]

I disagree that the shop is correct. The model is suitable for conversion but not simply as plug-n-play as some folk expect these days. 

 

The standard TTS speaker in its enclosure would simply stand inverted (noise facing up) on the RR chassis frame/weights attached by double sided sticky tape. Hardly even worth commenting on how to do it. Bags of room to upgrade the speaker.

 

Agreed that some work would be required to install wheel pickups (X8515) and a decoder socket and possibly lights if required to the dummy car. A relatively beginner level modelling task as detailed on my website HST conversion articles.

[TrainDriverJ]

No it doesn’t.  There are 2 thick plastic posts that stick down from the inner plastic shell that in all likelihood would damage the delicate thin plastic face of the speaker in this position if you were to try and clip the outer shell on, so beware. However, this I believe is the best position once these have been carefully shortened.

 

The model shop is making the correct decision at the point of sale as this is a railroad cheaper model which is also one likely to appeal to (absolute) beginners who again are more likely to want a simple trouble free  installation. I would always air on the side of caution iin this situation although further advice from them (if they were aware of how to go about doing it) may have been considered welcome/helpful.

[96RAF]

Have a look at this

https://youtu.be/TqJir39xh5k

 

It (eventually) clearly shows the two posts that hold the body securing screws, but still bags of room for a speaker on the weights.

[ColinB]

I would agree with RAF96, even if the speaker won't fit there are plenty of smaller speakers that would fit. The only issue I can see is the dummy car, if it doesn't have pickups then DCC will be a bit difficult. I don't know enough about this model, if it was the old model Peters spares has pickups, but then the relevant model shop should know this. I mean you definitely can fit a TTS sound decoder in the power car but perhaps not the dummy car without extra work. The model shop could have even done a deal, where they saved the second one for the next customer. Fitting sound in the power car is still better than no sound at all. It might be that the model shop thought it was not cost effective, or that you didn't buy it from them (some model shops get upset when you buy from the box movers). It is still business. As I said before, powering the dummy car is the most difficult bit.

[IJG]

i have fitted the TTS decoder to the power car by removing the clear plastic tubes which appear to be redundant (it hasn/t fallen apart yet :o) but have an issue in that the lights are permanently on and with the sound activated, the power car won't respond to commands so won't stop.  It ran well on DC and when I fitted a non sound decoder, the lights were lit still but it responded to stop

commands.  I don't know if I have a faulty model or if the model just isn't capable of running sound.  

[96RAF]

The lights on this model are obviously controlled by a PCB in the power car and if they are not responding or affecting the sound then there may be a fault with the basic loco design. Contact HCC after the holidays.

[ColinB]

I think I read a thread on this site that said that the lights were always on, on this model and not controlled by the dcc chip. So what I gather from your post it works with a normal decoder, but when you add the TTS sound decoder it just runs at full speed and you can't control it. I had this happen with one of my TTS decoders, it transpired that I had damaged it with one of my duff locos (the capacitor failed short on a 6 month old loco). It sounds like yours is damaged, but you say that when you put a normal DCC decoder back in, it works, so it sounds like there is nothing wrong with the loco, but the TTS decoder might have a fault. Does it give any sound at all? As my predecessor said, it sounds like a return job to Hornby, good news is the unit is covered by a guarantee. Contact Hornby Customer Service and they will give you a return number. It doesn't really matter now, but check that there isn't an issue with the speaker wires. If a normal DCC decoder works, then a TTS will, I even fit TTS to really old (1980's) locos, it does not depend on the loco. The only thing you should check is when you put all of it together, that you aren't "shorting" the circuit board out, as it is slightly larger than a normal decoder.

[IJG]

Sound works fine and it doesn't run away when I start it,  in many respects it works just like the rest of my sound fitted models, it just won't stop.  I have seen the thread about the lights and it does seem that it is normal for this model so I shall take your advice and get in touch with Hornby in the new year

[ColinB]

That is weird, so it does everything it is supposed to, other than stopping, something definitely weird is going on, the stop command is a software command to the decoder derived from the signal on the tracks. Sometimes because they simulate the inertia, it takes a little while to stop but not stopping at all, just shouldn't happen. In my case the decoder was damaged but it sounds like your's is not. I assume you have tried it in both directions. I wonder if it thinks it is running on DC, but then the sound wouldn't work.

[TrainDriverJ]

RAF96

I have watched the video. He is not installing a Hornby HST TTS decoder with its standard speaker attached and it is not the posts that hold the body that is the problem. There is an inner transparent shell which as you watch the video you can just about see. These are quite strong transparent tubular plastic posts that when the body is replaced sit down on the weights leaving not enough room for the Hornby TTS decoder speaker to sit on top of the weights. Unfortunately, one of them falls slap bang on the very thin speaker membrane and could easily puncture it when pressed down when refitting the body. As IJG has said if you are prepared to modify the structure of a brand new model then it should be okay and I do agree that internally overall there is a vast amount of room. So why Hornby why?

 

My post was 2 fold.

 

To point out to the original poster that this model isn't at point of sale ready to fit a TTS HST decoder without modification, which vindicates the model shop. I believe the model is more than likely a beginner model train set. Hornby makes no reference at all to being able to fit Hornby HST TTS decoder and speaker in this model.

 

Secondly, to point out to people that they should take care if they try as they may be going back to the shop with a broken decoder speaker, although since you have to buy 2 and the dummy car has no factory fitted facility to fit another one then you do get a second chance. To be fair IJG clearly spotted this but some others may not.

 

On a separate note to IJG. I have had it running fine with the Hornby HST Valenta TTS decoder and standard speaker with Elink and Railmaster so can confirm it is possible on this model.

 

If allowable, I could be contacted if Graham decides to give it a go because I only needed the one so still have my spare!

[96RAF]

To make direct contact with another member on this forum you have to request of site admin to make such contact with that ,ember and they will pass your contact details over once the other party has agreed they want to make contact also. A bit of a faff I know.

 

Your additional info about the TTS installation noted and should be of use to others intending to do the same. The Valenta sound set is nice though.

[ColinB]

I suppose the thing is if Hornby didn't want people to fit the TTS decoder chip then they shouldn't have made the model DCC ready. I think it is obvious that if you supply a TTS decoder for this model then someone is going to try to fit it, that is human nature, and small children would love sound. All the manufactures seem to have very little info on fitting sound in the instructions that come with the model although Bachmann make it pretty obvious where to fit it, and it fits, unlike Hornby where generally it involves some modification. Perhaps Hornby should have marketted a single TTS decoder with a small round speaker for this specific model. I mean all they have to do is split the twin pack.The trouble is with that guarantee to fix TTS decoder chips within guarantee period, all they are doing is making themselves a load of effort. How difficult is it to put in the instructions "it is possible to fit a sound decoder into this device, but if unsure get help from your model shop", they could even put a post on their webpage identifying the issues.

[96RAF]

Colin you can keep going round and round on this TTS installation subject (any model not just HST) all day and you will still not achieve anything. Hornby has put out general instructions with the TTS retro kits which state that if the model is not equipped for TTS then some modelling skills will be required. There is no need to put virtually the same instructions in every model box.

 

If you feel so strongly about it write to Hornby.

[Deltic Man]

I disagree that the shop is correct. The model is suitable for conversion but not simply as plug-n-play as some folk expect these days. 

 

The standard TTS speaker in its enclosure would simply stand inverted (noise facing up) on the RR chassis frame/weights attached by double sided sticky tape. Hardly even worth commenting on how to do it. Bags of room to upgrade the speaker.

 

Agreed that some work would be required to install wheel pickups (X8515) and a decoder socket and possibly lights if required to the dummy car. A relatively beginner level modelling task as detailed on my website HST conversion articles.

I've just bought one of these (R3608) and almost cried when i found no pick ups in the dummy car, then after some research i found that both bogies can possibly be swapped out for X9881 (Front) & X9865 (Rear), which both come complete with pick ups attatched. The fitting of the bogies into the frame looks the same, so I'm about to order a rear one from Peters Spares........ I will update you guys once I have it in my hand and try to fit it. Over & Out

[96RAF]

Thanks for the feedback. Look forward to seeing the results.

[Paulali]

Any update deltic? I would

like to add lights to my dummy hst as well

[ColinB]

@RAF96, I don't really have an issue with the the TTS speaker not fitting, I have the suitable skills to fit one in all my models. It does seem to be a bit of waste of resource to design a slot for a speaker to find it doesn't quite fit or foals the wheels, but I don't run the Company so not my issue. So no, I will not be contacting Hornby, because it is not my business. I was just pointing out to the community that quite frequently the speaker doesn't fit. It is just that I always try to think of, as I call them "the little man" (could be probably woman, to be PC correct) who is not an electronics and computer expert, trying to fit them. If you don't want excessive warranty, I was told in many seminars, you try to prevent the customer from doing anything wrong, electronics is incredibly easy to damage, but as I say it is not my business.

[Deltic Man]

**UPDATE**

Ok, X9865 doesnt fit, but you can remove the pick ups from it and fix them to the rear bogie of the dummy car and route the wiring up through into the main chassis area, which allows plenty of room for a TTS decoder. The LED light boards that you can get from Ebay also fit at the front under the "Dashboard" section.

I will post another update on removing the light pcb etc from the power car once i have done it.

[Deltic Man]

**FURTHER UPDATE**

You can get over the dummy car pick up issue by swapping the front bogies on the power and dummy cars.

Take great care when disconnecting the lighting pcb in the power car !

Check and Double check the wires before you snip !

once you're happy, solder you led light board to the Blue,Yellow & White wires of your decoder and your good to go !

[walkingthedog]

Could you not just add pickups to the bogie?

 

DCC concepts 

 

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/pickup-wiper-12-pack/

 

and DCC supplies

 

https://www.dccsupplies.com/search/results/?search=Pickups

 

 

do lots that can easily be adapted.