Hornby Class 800 - How DCC Ready Is It?

[Goathland]

The Hornby Hitachi Class 800 is decribed as DCC Ready.  I have the "DCC Ready" 5 car GWR train pack R2514 - and very nice it is. The enclosed instructions refer to "Hitachi Class 800 DCC Ready / DCC Fitted / Sound Operating and Maintence Instructions". There is a picture in section 6 of the underneath removed, showing the location of the 3 screws that hold it in place, a fitted rectangular specaker (40x20mm), and the PC board (lighting?) with the location of the DCC socket. The text reads "DCC Ready, See fig 7 for the location of the DCC socket. Both the power and dummy cars ar fitted with decoders and speakers". This text has a sticker over it which reads "See below for the location of the DCC socket and speaker if required" (remember that this is the DCC ready version and not DCC fitted). So far, so good.

The place for the speaker does indeed hold the hornby 40x20mm speaker in its enclosure and there are slotted vents in the underneath cover to let the sound out. The side tabs need to be trimmed off the speaker (not uncommon to have to do this to fit this speaker) and the remaining end tabs line up nicely with pre-drilled holes for fastening.

The question is - where is the space to put the the decoder chip?

The only description I could find of fitting DCC to this model is a you tube clip of a model that does not have a speaker and the decoder nestles into the speaker space. There is a another thread on the forum "Hornby, R3514, Hitachi IEP Bi-mode, Class 800" where TrainDriver John posted in Feb 2018 "[Hattons] happened to be working on these today fitting decoders and soldering speakers". So where id they put the decoder chip if they had speakers fitted?

There is not enough space between the PC board and the cover to put a decoder so does the decoder go inside the body? This would necessitate taking the body shell off the chasis (not difficult), putting the decoder in the body (in the aisle between the seats?), soldering on some new wires and running them through the same hole in the chasis used for the pickup wires (or cutting a new hole somewhere!), and soldering them to a dcc plug to push in to the the socket.

Has anyone fitted a DCC controller/sound chip to the Class 800 and could they give me some advice please?

Just for the record and until Hornby release a Class 800 TTS sound chip I am fitting a spare chip that I had just lying around (which happens to be the Class 43 HST Valenta sound chip) in the hope that I can get the 800 moving under DCC control.

 

 

[96RAF]

Service sheet 432 clearly shows an 8-pin socket on items 5 (power car) and 13 (dummy car) with what appears to be a hatch in the un-numbered part directly below them in this grab...

As a simple layman without the model to refer to I would suggest taking out the three screws seen at the bottom of the illustration to release that tray and gain access to the inner workings.

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[Howbi]

The space provided for the speaker is 40mm x 20mm........as there is not enough space between the bottom of the pcb and the bottom cover tray the TTS decoder which measures 27mm x 14mm would have to fit into the speaker space along with a Sugar Cube speaker of suitable size instead of the Hornby larger speaker........HB

[96RAF]

That oblong shape to the right of each frame is the 40x20 speaker enclosure so it should fit - outlined in blue below...

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[Goathland]

Service sheet 432 (RAF96, thanks for this extra info) suffers from the same problem as the instructons that came with my Class 800. It shows the speaker location and the DCC socket location but no location for the DCC decoder circuit board. In addition it shows the 40x20 speaker with all 4 tabs which will not fit. The two side tabs need to be removed.

The problem is that there is space (designated as speaker location) for the decoder OR for the speaker... but not both. One solution (ably summed up by Howbiman) is to use a much smaller speaker and fit both into the speaker space, presumably at a loss of sound quality.

As Hornby go to the trouble of picturing a speaker, providing fixing holes for it in the model, fitting a DCC socket, and declaring the model DCC ready then I would have hoped that a DCC sound enabled decoder would have just plugged straight in and not required a soldering iron and running new cables into the body.

It will be interesting to see what Hornby do if they release a DCC fitted version which is why I was wondering if anyone had taken the plunge and done it themselves.

[TrainDriverJ]

I also am a bit concerned about how Hornby are interpreting the DDC ready and TTS decoder and speaker fitting especially as they have released such for separate purchase.

 

It appears to me that many models will accept a decoder, DCC ready, but not the TTS decoders and supplied speaker without some modification.

 

I would now never assume where a model is stated as DCC ready it is okay to buy a TTS decoder without confirmation first.

 

It would greatly help in Hornby stated which models are TTS ready. We would then know for sure. This could have been adopted in the latest catalogue (shown alongside models), especially as Hornby have hinted in the catalogue that their are more separate TTS decoders to come. You only have to look at how many times this problem crops up in this forum to appreciate some clarity as some people do not want to start changing things. A helpful opportunity missed I think.

 

 

 

[96RAF]

Most recent tender locos are TTS DCC Ready in that they have a decoder socket and a speaker mount in the tender.

 

Obviously not all DCC Ready locos can be TTS ready as some steam locos do not have tenders and some diesels are either Railroad spec chassis and some are all wheel drive chassis. The former having plenty of room for a speaker and the latter may/may not.

 

My preferred loco option would be a speaker mount that takes either a round or an oblong speaker preferably in an enclosure. Some tender loco weights already have this dual cuout. In addition I would prefer the retro TTS kits to be just the decoder then Joe Public can choose his own speaker, or maybe Hornby will in future supply a different new speaker with enclosures that can be adapted to suit a variety of locos. Who knows.

[richard_croft]

Have they made a TTS decoder for the 800 now? whats the model number?

Richard

[96RAF]

Have they made a TTS decoder for the 800 now? whats the model number?

Richard

 

Not yet as far as I know, but it would be a complex sound set with electric and diesel background ‘engine’ options. The problem with electric trains is they are a bit of a non-event on the engine side.

[ColinB]

I have found on a few of the Hornby steam locos that although they provide a space for the speaker, that quite often they don't always fit, or there is no space to run the wires through, or the circuit board fouls the bottom of the coal hopper in the tender. I can't understand how they do it, unless the design gets changed slightly between design and manufacture, to make them easier to make. On some I have had to cut a slot in the weight for the wires to pass through, on others use a sugar cube speaker and these are locos that are supposedly designed to take the TTS.

[ColinB]

I must admit all the manufacturers suffer from this, there are so little instructions as to where the DCC socket is, and how to fit it. I recently bought a Bachmann Crab and the only indication of where to put the DCC decoder is by looking at parts diagram, and then it is not that clear. Trouble is taking loco bodies off is always problematic, especially with steam ones where you can damage the valve gear, so you don't really want to take it apart just to see where the DCC socket is. I know you are eventually going to have do this to fit the decoder.

[creilly81]

I have all 3 variants of the Hornby GWR class 800 with sound fitted to each.

What i would say is, if you want a fully realistic option of Megabass speakers for the Diesel engines in 2 of the 2 centre coaches and maybe a bass reflex to handle the electric side in each power car, be prepared for some minor work to the coach interiros to get them to fit.

If you just want to install sound of the more plug and play type, YouChoos actually make a pair of sugarcube speakers in specific enclosures exactly the correct size to mount where Hornby suggest, as well as also being able to locate the sound decoder there too.  😎

[Andygt550]

Many Thanks to this forum for highlighting the problem with the new 800 class. I was about to purchase the twin pack class 43 TTS sound decoders and use these until Hornby release the relevant sound decoders. Now it seems these wont fit. I do not want to chop a new model up. This means I have a a £400 train sat doing nothing because the designers of this model train either didnt think that far ahead or have "something" in the pipeline...If so just let the public know please.

I want sound, I dont want to cut the model up, I dont want to pay £200+ for non Hornby dcc sound. Wish I hadn't bought bought the model now. 

[96RAF]

Where does Hornby advertise there is sound either for the 800or coming soon. I cannot find it anywhere, so why get a strop in because they don’t do one.

 

You can either fit non sound decoders which will fit or buy an upmarket sound decoder for the type and suitable speakers that will fit.

 

Installing HST sound will also fit if you buy suitable replacement speakers (say from you-choos) it seems from an earlier answer.

 

I would like to amend my earlier post showing what I thought was a speaker enclosure (blue circled), when in fact it is just a blank enclosure and would be replaced by the one that came with a 40 x 20 oblong speaker.

[TrainDriverJ]

It’s simple. Don’t assume any advertised DCC ready loco accepts, or will likely accept in the future, the relevant separately sold Hornby TTS decoder and speaker without modification unless you have confirmation.

 

If you do, as Hornby for reasons unknown don’t seem to want to list this information, be potentially prepared for some unhappiness, work, extra expenditure or returning the product.

 

I know it’s easy with hindsight but a bit of thought and better planning by them would have been to accommodate a much smaller speaker in their models. Many people have stated these provide the same or better sound. Maybe cost was a factor as they would have certainly retro fitted into many more models.

[96RAF]

Speaker technology has improved - e.g. mobile phone speakers nowadays are much better than the old tinny noise you got from early phones. It may be that Hornby is actively looking at using such speakers but they are still in development. These ideas do not materialise overnight into the real world. Meanwhile you have a superb range of aftermarket speakers to choose from (or should that be to yu-choos from).

 

I agree it would be better for everyone (especially the non modelling PnP brigade) if each model had a speaker already built in, then it was just a case of plugging in the decoder element of a retro sound kit. This however would either mean folk still had to solder to the speaker or the standard socket would need to be modified to incorporate speaker connections. Such a socket with speaker pins does exist in the Next 18 and Plux series of sockets so maybe that is the way to go - new socket and built in speaker with the retro TTS kit providing just a decoder with matching plug.

 

Suggest it in the Wishlist section and see what happens.