adding tts to sound ready emu

[stevieedge]

Is it possible to add a tts decoder to a sound ready 31-379 Bachmann OO Gauge Class 416 2-EPB 2-Car EMU 5771 BR (SR) Green, this has a 21 pin socket

I belive you can get a 21 to 9 pin adaptor and understand there may be a physical sixe problem with the added height and I may loose 1 of the functions but there seems a way round this, What I am not sure about is the speaker. the emu is sound ready which I assume means there is already a speaker on board, the tts decoders look like they have speakers wired to them. So my question is can I use the tts decoder and if so what do I do with the speaker.

Thanks

 

[96RAF]

You problem is not so much the physical installation but the fact that Hornby have not issued an EMU TTS decoder yet.

[Chrissaf]

As a TTS EMU version is not available yet. The suggestion below is generic that could be used for any TTS decoder fitted in a Bachmann 'Sound Ready' 21 pin loco.

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First thing first. You need to confirm that the loco does indeed have a speaker already fitted. If it does, then the next thing to do is to confirm that the speaker Impedance is 8 Ohms and not 4 Ohms (4 ohms will damage the TTS decoder).

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If the check confirms an 8 Ohm speaker is present, then it will be wired to Pins 9 & 10 on the 21 Pin loco connector.

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One way of potentially many it could be done.

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Now assuming that there is physical space to use a Bachmann 36-559 21 Pin to 8 Pin Adaptor, you would disconnect the wires from the existing TTS speaker and solder them to Pins 9 & 10 as shown in the schematic below. The TTS decoder 8 pin plug would connect to the Bachmann 36-559 adaptor as normal. With the adaptor wired this way, the speaker output of the TTS decoder would be passed through to the factory fitted speaker via Pins 9 & 10 on the 21 pin adaptor and 21 pin loco connector.

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If the space for the adaptor is tight. Then the 8 pin socket could be unsoldered from the Bachmann PCB (a proper delsoldering suction pump needs to be used, or desoldering wick in the absence of a pump....see example images below). With the 8 pin socket removed, the socket can be relocated to a suitable position and extended back to the Bachmann PCB using ultra fine decoder wire extensions.

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This will require extremely delicate fine soldering skills whilst using appropriate soldering tools....... and also very fine decoder wire if the 8 pin socket needs extending.

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Desolder wick (braid)

/media/tinymce_upload/35528cdf4190d0f95cc93eeb194c89fd.jpg

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Desoldering pump (powered...this is the one I use and very effective it is too at removing multi pin components from PCBs)

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Desoldering pump (cheap manual pump....not very effective for very fine work and not recommended for this particular task).

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[walkingthedog]

EMU's don't actually make enough noise to warrent sound do they? 

[ColinB]

Hornby don't make an TTS decoder for any electrical loco, unless I missed something. I have one of these models and I think there was quite a lot of room to fit the decoder. If not, do what I did with my class 37 (see post). I did think about buying a sound decoder for my EMU and then thought "but EMUs don't really make any noise" so why bother, unless you are thinking of fitting it into a "Thumper", and you wrongly called it an EMU.

[Chrissaf]

I have a Bachmann Class 411 fitted with a 21 pin Loksound V4 sound decoder. The class 411 is very similar to Steve's proposed class 416. Mine makes plenty of sounds, Ones that I remember in my youth when commuting into London on a Class 411 or near equivalent. It was the nostalgia element that instigated the purchase. I changed the header code on the model to 50 which was the route my local station was on.

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As well as electric motor whine, mine randomly starts pumps and various other spot sounds. I find the soundscape loaded on the Loksound very entertaining.

[stevieedge]

Thankyou for your help and suggestions , I can find very little tech info but as  they are a very good value I have just ordered one and will make my mind up when I have it.

thanks again

 

Steve

[ColinB]

I have found depending on the make of the 21 pin to 8 pin converter, there may be up to a difference of 1 to 2 mm between the different makes. It doesn't sound a lot, but it certainly makes a difference. If you are going to remove the 8 pin socket from the 21 pin to 8 pin converter, you are probably better off buying a LaisDCC 21 pin breakout header (brings the 21 pins out to solder pads). Unless you are reasonably skilled at getting an 8 pin socket out of the PCB, the socket pulls out the plated through holes as it is removed, damaging the PCB. What we used to do to get them off was to basically cut the plastic away and then unsolder the pins individually.

[96RAF]

See also here

https://www.strathpefferjunction.com/product-category/dcc-adaptors-sockets-and-accessories/

[ColinB]

This is the one you want :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DCC-MTC-21-pin-female-to-21-wire-adaptor-PCB-New-UK-Stock-Seller-/202458411536?hash=item2f23763210

[stevieedge]

Loco came today and alas there is no speaker on board however there is a space for where the speaker goes, this also appears to have to small sockets which I assume is to plug the speaker in. There appears plenty of space for a adaptor plus decoder. So my next questions are

if there was a tts decoder for an emu would I leave the hornby speaker attached to the wires and fit speaker in space provide. I assume I would use the adaptor suggested by Colin B

If I bought a 21 pin Loksound V4 sound decoder as Chrissaf describes, I believe these come with a sugar cube speaker, do these come with a plug or do you by a plug or are these again wired to the decoder.

Lastly how do you fix the speakers in place?

Thanks for your assistance

Steve

 

/media/tinymce_upload/44340d2bca9ec486f7faa4a396cbb07d.jpg

[stevieedge]

Loco came today and alas there is no speaker on board however there is a space for where the speaker goes, this also appears to have to small sockets which I assume is to plug the speaker in. There appears plenty of space for a adaptor plus decoder. So my next questions are

if there was a tts decoder for an emu would I leave the hornby speaker attached to the wires and fit speaker in space provide. I assume I would use the adaptor suggested by Colin B

If I bought a 21 pin Loksound V4 sound decoder as Chrissaf describes, I believe these come with a sugar cube speaker, do these come with a plug or do you by a plug or are these again wired to the decoder.

Lastly how do you fix the speakers in place?

Thanks for your assistance

Steve

 

/media/tinymce_upload/44340d2bca9ec486f7faa4a396cbb07d.jpg

[Chrissaf]

If I bought a 21 pin Loksound V4 sound decoder as Chrissaf describes, I believe these come with a sugar cube speaker.

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ESU Loksound do not ship a speaker with their decoders. However, the Loksound retailer might include a speaker, but usually the retailers leave the choice of speaker to the customer.

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....do these come with a plug or do you buy a plug or are these again wired to the decoder.

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Your photo shows a 21MTC connector. It also shows a position for a speaker (but none fitted). Therefore the probability is that Pins 9 & 10 on the MTC21 pin connector have tracks on the PCB that go to that 2 pole socket thing to the left of where the speaker goes. A genuine Bachmann speaker probably comes with a suitable plug that fits that socket, but the likelihood (99%) is that any non Bachmann speaker you purchase will at best have bare wires or no wires at all. Needing you to make your own connection arrangements. As I described in my earlier reply, pins 9 & 10 are the standard connection pins for a speaker when using a proper MTC21 pin sound decoder.

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If there was a TTS decoder for an emu would I leave the Hornby speaker attached to the wires and fit speaker in space provide. I assume I would use the adaptor suggested by Colin B

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Yes you would use either the Hornby speaker as fitted, or disconnect the wires from the Hornby speaker and reattach the same wires to a replacement speaker if one was sourced. And use an adaptor as both Colin and I suggested. In the case of my previous reply, the wires going to Pins 9 & 10 would not be needed and the speaker would be left as a direct connection to the TTS decoder.

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Lastly how do you fix the speakers in place?

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That will depend upon the speaker purchased and what the mounting options are for it. There is no standard default fixing method.

[ColinB]

I think when I bought my "Thumper" sound unit from Howes, it came with a speaker, I know the ones I buy from YouChoos, I always have to buy a speaker. I suspect your EMU came with a particular place to put the the speaker as it basically the same as a "Thumper", I think it is a 40 mm rectangular one, but I am not sure. Generally, I find that even if you bought a rectangular speaker they don't always fit in the position. It is better to look at speaker mounting position and work out which speaker will work best. It is a bit academic anyway Hornby don't make a TTS decoder for an EMU. For a lot of my sound applications I am tending to buy iphone speakers off EBay, they are really slim and sound alright to me (others may disagree).

[ColinB]

I have just converted my Bachmann 31-377 to DCC (I had a spare 21 pin decoder from converting a class 66 to sound), so I had to take it apart. I think if you use a convertional rectangular speaker then you put small self taping screws into the preformed holes. The space is big enough to put a double ice cube speaker if you wanted (note; this is 4 ohm, not 8 ohm which a Hornby TTS has to have), or if you wanted to, a slim small iphone speaker. It is probably easier to mount it using double sided tape.

[stevieedge]

Just to say thankyou for your help, searched bachmann for anything about a suitablr speaker with plug but nothing shows so emailed them but havnt had a reply. will run just on dcc for now. will try try diesil tts just to make sure it works. Do you think hornby may make a decoder for a EMU in the future?

 

thanks again

Steve

[ColinB]

Hornby tend to only make TTS decoders for locos they currently make and even then not all of them. Even with the current TTS decoders, they seem to get a batch made and that is it. I know they are going to rerelease the class 47 TTS decoder in the summer, but at the moment you cannot get one although they released it in the past. I keep saying this, but I suspect all the TTS decoders are the same hardware loaded with different software. I don't know if they still use the same technology but the way you used to do it was digitise the sound, store the data in memory and then replay it through a digital to analogue converter to reproduce the sound. The only hope is they might make one for the Brighton Belle. Lets just hope that when the people that are rebuilding it for mainline use, finish it, Hornby do a special release to celebrate. From watching James Mays documentary, I get the opinion that they have one guy that does the TTS, so I supect they are limited as to what they can produce.